City of Shoreview, MN City Council

Up here, I tell you, Paul. So Deputy Patsy too she know ok. Let s do tiny. Ok. Play up music. I suppose it s. Too much to hope that one of the, one or two of the nuisance abatements, uh away. Too much dope tonight Oh This meeting shall come to order. Welcome to the City of Shoreview City Council meeting

Of Tuesday, JANUARY 20th, 2026. The first thing we do is ask you to join us for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And two the republic for which it stands, one under GOD indivisible with liberty and justice for all. So, um I just wanted to let everybody know in case you didn t that there are agendas for those of you that would like them on the podium in the back of the room, and for the people that might be streaming at home, we have uh large group today in city council chambers. So thank you all for coming. Tonight. Excuse me. Um, the next item that we have on our agenda is number 4, which is the approval of the agenda. So I ll look to council to see if there s anything that they want to change, if not, I ll look for a motion to approve.

Move to approve the agenda a second. Yeah, we have a motion to approve tonight s agenda by council member Springhorn with a second by Council member Maryland. All in favor, please say aye. Aye, all opposed same sign. Motion passes for to 0. Um, I did want to quickly mention that we typically don t have counsel the night that the band is practicing, but because of the holiday we do, and we usually keep the door open simply because this is a public meeting and we want to make sure that people that might be out in the hall know that it s public and they can come in. If it gets too loud, we will shut the door, so I just wanted to let you know that if it does get too loud and distracting, we will do that. So the next item that we have, um, is public comments, and this is the section where individuals can address the city council about any item that is not part of the agenda, general business.

Um uh, what we use for our guidelines for public comments, um. You re asked to come to the podium, state your name and address, and if possible, keep your comments to 3 minutes or less just to make sure that everyone has an opportunity to speak. And it s also important to note, um, that generally the city council won t make a decision at this point about something that is brought up tonight. If it needs consideration, follow up additional data. Excuse me, we will get back to you on that item. And the reason we do that is we don t know at this point what people are going to bring up. So we MAY need to do some research. So I did want to make that very clear at the beginning, um, that you MAY not get a response or an answer tonight, but we will get back to you on whatever you bring up. So if there s a specific follow-up item.

Um so with that, I would like to invite whoever would like to come up, uh, again, please state your name and address uh at the podium. And you can, there s no particular order, so feel free to come on up. Thank you. Yes, on the podium, please. My name s Ritesh. Uh, I live at 3525 Rustic Place. So my family is very important to me. That is my purpose. I m here tonight as a husband, as a parent, and as a resident who cares deeply about the city and the people who live here. Last week my child was scared for days because the community fear has trickled down into her head. And the fear is that her dad could be taken away. At that age kids think in pencils and crayons and washable paints. Things can be erased, mistakes can be undone. She asked me if someone would take my passport and erase it. Effectively erasing me So I showed it to her I sat with her I let her try to rub the information away with her own fingers.

Just to prove that some things are real and things don t disappear. That moment calmed her It did not calm me It broke my heart It broke my soul No child should have to live with that kind of fear. And no parent should have to explain what I did with my daughter. And no parent should have to explain why systems built by adults can make people feel disposable. I know Shoreview does not have its own police department. I also know the city has taken steps to trained staff. And internal teams on what to do if I shows up. That matters, and I want to acknowledge that work. But what happens behind the scenes doesn t help families who are scared at home and don t know what their rights are. But tonight instead of going on and on about how it s impacting me. I m asking the council to consider three things. First Shove must amend its contract with Ramsey County Sheriff s Office.

The amendments should include clear language of the deputies assigned to Shoreview will not participate in civil immigration enforcement. Will not honor ice detainers and will not assist federal authorities when presented with a judicial warrant signed by a judge. This isn t about defying the law. It s about constitutional guardrails and maintaining trust in public safety. Second the city should adopt a city policy stating no city resources facilities, data, or staff will be voluntarily used. To assist ice in civil immigration enforcement. And any request must go through the city attorney. These, these things protect privacy, due process, and families who are just trying to live their lives. Third, and this is the most critical. Communicate clearly, visibly, and practically with the residents. Right now, the city has made a statement, but it s buried down on the landing page. Families fear families in fear, they re not gonna go digging through the page or scroll down the main page to find the relevant information.

Especially when they re looking for reassurances. We need this information front and center. And beyond statements, we need a plain language resource pack for residents and businesses, something our website does not have. Concrete guidance, real answers. Questions like what does a federal warrant signed by a judge actually look like? How is it different from a document that s simply signed by an ice agent. What should someone do if ice shows up in their home or their business. If a door, if my door is damaged because ice decided to ram my front door looking for somebody who doesn t live there, who s going to pay for those damages. Who can residents call locally if they have questions or concerns. I know your contact information is there on the website. But i m not gonna call the mayor in the middle of the night to say, hey. Someone rammed my front door. How am I gonna get this fixed?

Right now, most of us don t know these things, myself included. And not knowing is what feeds fear. Better communication, it could mean round tables with the city council, city manager, the mayor, the sheriff. It could mean daily or weekly updates as to what measures the city is undertaking, which organizations are you collaborating with? I m asking you to be out there to show up to explain clearly what the city is doing or not doing to give residents the tools they need to feel grounded instead of afraid. You don t control federal policy. I know that. The federal government will likely not heed any of your requests. I also note that. But at least you ll be doing something. Something to make us feel safer. And hopefully be safer. Right now, you do control how transparent. How visible, and how present this city chooses to be. My child needs to know her dad can t be erased.

She needs to know I can t be disappeared. She tonight I m asking for your help. To make sure no family in Shoreview. Feels like they can be. Thank you for listening and choosing to lead out loud. Thank you I, I think before i meant to do this at the beginning of, um, I did have some facts to share, uh, so if you don t mind, I ll share what I, some things that you might not be aware of before the next person comes up. I meant to do that before we started, um so some of this might be a little helpful. Um from the city s perspective, the public safety of our community, our residents, our visitors, no matter what their immigration status, those people that come into the community center. We have a great deal of activity there and responsibility. There are children, people from all over, um, come in and use that in our businesses, um, so our key focus is around public safety in the community, um, which I think speaks a little bit to what you re looking for.

Um, we do hear the concerns of residents. I think I can speak for council that we all share those concerns as well. Excuse me. Um, we met with the sheriff before or that not the sheriff, but the undersheriff Jeff Rammacher in charge of the patrol division just before this meeting and he confirmed what he has confirmed before, um, in detail that they first of all, there s no coordination or information shared between the federal governments and the local law enforcement, including the Ramsey County Sheriff s Office, and I was at a meeting last week with a group of mayors from all across the metro, and as far as we could determine because we had all kinds of counties represented there, no local law enforcements are cooperating with them in apprehension where they would be called in as if there were, say, a um a conflict or some um, you know, a a protest out of control or someone did something egregious and or called 911 and it was something that was against the rule of law.

Now we all know that there are many stories where the federal agents MAY not be following that as diligently. Um, however, we did get that confirmation again from Ramsey County Cor that there is no cooperation with um the federal agents and no communication ongoing between them. Um, in terms of access federal law does allow federal agents to operate without a warranty non-private areas. That is something, uh, uh, you know, to your point, we can t control in public areas. Those would include things like city streets, sidewalks, parks, parking lots, and most community center areas, not all, but most are not private. They re considered public. Our staff is trained on which areas are private and they have guidance on how to respond should federal agents try to conduct activities on Shoreview properties. And in that for staff, for example, they know if I were to come on the property or enter the community center here, for example, they would dial 911 and they also call their immediate supervisor, so the leadership, uh, staff here knows then to that escalates it to them to intervene in whatever way they see fit depending on the situation.

Um you re right in that cities are limited by state and federal law in what action can be taken related to federal agents. Um we know that Shoreview businesses as well as those in other communities are being impacted by workers not being able to or feeling safe to show up and also by cust uh that fewer customers in that some people MAY choose to stay home or not go to doctor s appointments, etc. Um, according to the Ramsey County Sheriff activity at this point has been very limited. However, we know that we re in a metro area and they know that that MAY change, and so therefore, you know, this is a fluid situation and the reaction to those activities also are what we do, for example, they re the sheriff MAY change. I spoke with many mayors about the situation within their cities last week. We had a large group from across the metro area and we also met with ones in our surrounding community.

It s about what they re doing and cities actions and reactions will have things to do with, for example, how many the demographics of their city, how many immigrant people live there? How many immigrant businesses there are that are impacted, um also, it can depend on what kind of, we have the community center. We know that s something that we ve got to be very protective of for the children that are there, for staff, for people, residents visiting, so that is a very strong focal point for us, and we know that our staff needs to be trained to, to deal with that. Excuse me, but sometimes what businesses or whether they have a local police department or not. Different cities will take different actions or react different ways in order to keep their communities safe and their businesses viable, so I just wanted to clarify that, um yeah, and I think that s it. And, and the first point of contact if in the community, you feel unsafe or there s something that um you know, you re seeing something that you think is against the law or someone is being um attacked or pulled away and, and you need to intervene or in yourself in a situation.

The first thing to do is dial 911, um, because our Ramsey County sheriffs, as I said, will respond. They can t interfere with ice, but they can. Protect to whatever ability they can do residents and will respond to emergencies. So I did want to lay those things out there. They MAY already be information that you know, but know that different cities are. Treating this differently depending on the situation in that particular city, so know that a lot of our focus is on this place here, particularly because we have children, however, it s our main focus as a city at all is on the public safety of community residents, businesses, visitors, um, those that are here, uh, knowing we ve got a community center makes us keep a special eye on that and the training of our staff. So thank you for letting me share that and now I welcome whoever else would like to speak, feel free to come up.

Hi, my name is Ben Postman. I live at 700 Arbogast with my wife and 2 year old son. Um, as a us Army veteran and a member of this community, I want to say that I m, I m disgusted by what s happening right now with ice in our community. Um, they re having profound and devastating impacts across this city and our surrounding areas. On our street alone where we live, I ve seen the following things. Uh, we had a neighbor who was out shoveling snow He saw a suspected ice vehicles circling our block and stopping to watch him. The vehicle had fully tinted windows, no front license plate Um, he s a person of color and he didn t feel safe enough to be outside of his own home shoveling snow. We have another family down the street and uh they had to ask us if they could send their kids to our home.

While they weren t home, um, if something happened or if they felt unsafe. We ve had to keep our son home from activities because we see the reported ice presence in our community, and we often don t feel safe having them out. I ll point out also that when I say we see reported ice presence in our community. I mean that we are seeing that in grassroots community communication channels. There s nothing from the city. There s nothing from the county. There s nothing from the state. There are no resources that are telling us where ice is, how to stay safe. My wife has witnessed ice vehicles that are driving radically at high speeds down our streets, endangering residents. This threat is real and it is in Shoreview. I m asking the Shoreview City Council to take the following steps to help keep our community safe. We need to have a uh cohesive plan to deal with ice activity in our city.

Reporting, response, alerts, etc. All of this. A lot of this, like I said, is being organized now by residents, but the city should absolutely be involved in this, if not leading it. Uh, the JANUARY 15th statement from the city was heartening to see, but ultimately it lacked substance. It would be good to have signs posted in Shoreview Public property that ice is not allowed to use those areas for staging. This is something that Roosevelt s done with mixed results. Pressure Ramsey County to have their police force enforce those policies, uh, set up a system to receive email reports from residents about ice violations of this policy. As well as other legal and human rights abuses and then send those on to the Minnesota ag for future prosecuting an action. Again, these are things that are being organized in our community right now. And our local government all the way up to the state level. Uh is doing nothing To be honest, I don t know what all the right policy decisions are to make in this horrible situation, um, however, we need you to act.

Statements about safety and acceptance are not enough. You need to keep our community safe. Not only is ice saulting undocumented immigrants. But it s extending to all people of color. Us citizens, and other legal residents. This is the time for us to stand together against tyranny. And I hope that our local government will stand with us. Thank you Good evening. My name is Leanna Pavlinsky. I live at 583 Sherwood Road, um, and I am here to ask the Shoreview City Council to consider any and all actions

That the city can take legally to a to put obstacles in the way of ice in order to protect the physical and mental well-being of residents and visitors to our city at this critical time. I want to thank COUNCILMAN Gardner and the Springhhorn and the city manager for their um immediate and thoughtful response to the email I sent to you, um, to all of you regarding this issue. I was pleased to learn that thought has been uh been given to this um by the end and that this has been communicated to the Shoreview residents through MR. Martin s and Martin s Facebook letter. I could go on for much more than my 3 minutes about the horrific things that ice is doing in our state, but you already know those things are happening and that they are operating in our state without rules or repercussions. The laws are communities operate under are not being followed Well, I know the city of Shoreview has no direct law enforcement power.

I hope the council will consider things other cities have done. And clearly from some of the things you said, you ve considered things and you re not going to do them, but I m gonna list them anyway. Um, their Roseville has done a great job of putting signage in the city parks for the parking lots, um, and in city facilities to restrict restrict the use of parking lots for for only park and facility use, blocking, staging, and storage or other activities without a city permit. Asking residents to document any violation to this and then emailing the information to the city complaint area. Placing immigrant rights information on the website. You look at the show that the Rose Roseville, it s right there. It s up front and center. I hope you will also investigate adding the city of Shoreview to the federal lawsuit if that s a possibility. The more cities involved, the greater the impact.

To date, and clearly I m wrong, but to date I have not seen reports about specific ice action in our city, but it s MR. Martin s said to me in my, his email response, we know that it s just a matter of time before this happens. As I have stated, I am grateful that the council has given thought to this issue. I now ask that you take visible, proactive steps to demonstrate our commitment, your commitment to the safety of all Shoreview residents. Thank you. Thank you. My name is Neil Cavanaugh. I live at 675 Shiftsky Road. Um I guess what I really wanted to say the day after Martin Luther King Day is that. It

S possible that local governments think that what their citizens want is some sort of civil disobedience movement. And we recognize that s not what you can do. Right But the kind of world s foremost scholar on resisting fascism. Has a list of rules on. What people can do to slow the spread of it. And the first rule that you ve probably heard before is do not obey in advance. And so I think what people are asking is, yeah, the ice might well be able to come in and ignore our signs. Or push past you when they want to enforce a warrant. But what we don t want to see is our council members. You know, asking the city attorney, hey, do you think we can do this? And the city attorneys saying, No, probably not. And then we all shrug our shoulders and don t do anything. Ok. And I think that s the attitudinally what we want to see from our electric representatives.

Do not obey in advance Another way to say this is if you make me. Ok. Somebody wants, if an ice officer shows up and they want to see your id. And you are not required to give it to them. Your response as a citizen is if you make me. Because they can t, right? They want to come into your house without a warrant. The response is if you make me. Because they can t do it And we all know that as citizens. That s how we re all responding to this. We want to see that from you. Ok? If you re hearing complaints that ice vehicles are operating or speeding along city streets. We can put up temporary barriers to slow this the. Um. Speed of the vehicles and no inherits, ok, we can shrink lanes down to one lane if we want. There are any number of things that we can do if we get together and come up with a plan.

But that s never gonna happen if everybody s too afraid to do anything. Unrelated to those things, which I m more than happy to talk to you guys about offline. Um, ideas for things like that. This Friday is meant to be a general strike in the state of Minnesota Um. A really easy thing that the council could vote on tonight. If you want to add it to your agenda is should we close all of the government buildings and all the schools this Friday. It s, it s within your control to do. Um, another thing you could do is organize transportation for anybody who wants to attend the MARCH that is accompanying that general strike, which is this Friday at 2 o clock in Minneapolis. It doesn t mean that you re taking a position necessarily politically, you re just providing transportation for your residents to get someplace that you know a lot of them might want to go.

Um. You can organize workshops. Where people could come here every day at noon, and someone will be here to train them. On what their rights are I mean, that s something that I think a lot of citizens are doing anyway, but the fact that you all haven t already organized it is concerning. Um. And the other thing I, I guess I would like to hear more about. I don t have a specific proposal necessarily, but I would really like to know what the city is, um, legal plan of attack is. Because what we ve seen elsewhere in the state is people just trampling over citizens rights. And the way you re supposed to fight back against that is to immediately get your butt to court. And file for an injunction And we ve seen uh judge issue one injunction that is probably just being ignored. Um for activities that the Whipple Federal Building and the way protesters have been treated there.

There s absolutely no reason that we can t seek something like that locally. If our city attorney is on board and able to file those things based on evidence that citizens give to them. Um. So that s all I really had to say, do more. We re here for you to help, but, um, we want you guys to like wanna. Thanks. Thank you Good evening. Um, my name is Emily Salababares. I m at 3279 Churchill Street. Um, and first I, I want to thank you for the statement that you did put out, um, and acknowledging the uncertainty, the fear. That many in our community are living with regardless of their identity and their immigration status. This is causing fear for so many people, the ice presence in Minnesota. So I, I want to acknowledge that and thank you and thank um Brad and Renee for taking time to to talk with me and I had conversations to learn more about what you re doing, um, and appreciate that time has been spent in staff energy looking into what can be done But I want to echo my neighbors in that that that s not enough.

And saying that we ve reached a dead end. Is not enough for us, and, um, I m very happy that neighbors before me came up with great proposals cause I don t have great proposals, but I m just here to say that I know that we need to do more because my neighbors individually are doing more. And I want um, information shared transparently. With people in our community so they understand their rights, and it can be simple things like social media posts and flyers around the community center and city hall and things were we as much as possible trying to get information out so people know what their rights are, know what to do in the scenarios that my neighbors have raised. And it, it breaks my heart to be here tonight talking about this. And there are people that I love and care about who are not here, who wanted to come and speak.

And they re too terrified to leave their house. And to stand here in 2026 and say that us citizens are too scared to come to a city council meeting in Shoreview, Minnesota because of the color of their skin. Is wrong And so it s not the time for status quo. It s not the time to say Shoreview is not political. Our city council isn t political. Human, these are human rights and human rights should not be political and the safety of my neighbors and their children should not be political. This is what we are talking about And so I, I wanna stand here letting you know that residents and the people of Shoreby are behind you in making strong and courageous decisions to protect our neighbors and protect our community from ice. Thank you. My name s Kel Reverend Kelly Anderle. I live at 1624 9th Street. I

M a mom My son just graduated at Century He grew up, he went through Turtle Lake, Chippewa, and and Mountview High School, he had a lot of friends. He was in a lot of activities. I coached those kids are scared. I m scared. My neighbors are scared. My street is silent. All of my neighbors that are outside normally aren t. We have our gates shut, we have our curtains drawn. No one wants to look outside except to see if they re scary trucks. We don t want to live like this. I don t want to have to see my son s friends, my co-workers be scared to come to work, be scared to go out uh go play Magic the Gathering. They re afraid to go to the community places that should be safe. They re scared to go to the library. That we shouldn t have that. We need to do more I really appreciate all of you guys showing up today and you guys listening I don t have a lot to ask.

I just wanted to be another voice and be the voice for those that aren t here because they have their curtains drawn and their lights dimmed. Thank you. Thank you. Sure. No, just a, a question if I could ask um the Reverend if she can share where she, uh, what neighborhood if she s not interested in a specific address, what neighborhood she lives in Brooklyn. Thank you. My name is Bob Johnson. I m at 333 Denison Avenue, um. And I really hate doing stuff like this, so, um, and I can feel the nerves of everybody. Um, but I came tonight because there s a, a, a friend of mine who um serves the city, um, didn t feel comfortable coming, um, and um, it s, so I endorse what s been said and it s already been mentioned, but, uh, but I, in a way, I was exchanging some emails with him today, and I wanted to come and be there for him Um, myself personally, I I lived and worked abroad for a few years, um, and maybe it s my privilege, but I never felt the need to, carry my passport with me.

Um, you know, I was had the belief that, you know, if something happened, you know, I d be ok and I d have access to the documents that I needed at the due time, well, what we re seeing now it s not the case. And, and if I, you know, born and raised in Minnesota, and um feel like I, I, I haven t had a valid passport in, years, and I ve renewed it this year because of what s going on. And, and if i m asking, should I be carrying this document with me just in case, um, I think that s a travesty. Um, so I just want to add my voice and, and be here for my friend. And uh thank you very much. Thank you My name is Eleanor Jackson and I live at 5602 Alameda Street. I wasn t going to speak and I don t know that I can get through this, but it seems to me that listening to what the people have said, we need strong leadership, and I think Shoreview City Council, the mayor, we could stand up and lead the rest of the communities.

Give them, I mean, ideas on what they can do. I think this is the time, as they said, that we stand up and we be counted. Um, there are so many things, so many people that can t do that, those that

Can should. Hello, my name is Sarah Steed, and I live at 222 Denison Avenue. I have been a resident for 12 years, and this is the first time I ve felt the need to come to a council meeting. And it s for the same reason as everybody else here today. Um, a lot of people have said the things that I wanted to say that, you know, everybody is afraid and. Uh I ve been on threads with many, other residents, especially parents, because I m a parent of kids in 3 different schools, and one of the things that stood out to me this week was that there was a mother asking if it was safe enough to come and bring her kids to the indoor playgrounds. She was asking other parents if they had seen ice in the area, you know, they re, they re looking for other people to tell us what s happening, and I feel like that is the job of the city to say there will not be ice in these places.

They cannot come in and be in the places that your children are playing. They cannot sit outside and, and intimidate people for no reason with sorry, this is really going to be hard for me. Um so there were other parents who were offering to sit out and work in their cars during the time that this person wanted to go and take her kids in. There were people who were trying to solve the problems, and I wanna see that from city council, not just the neighbors. Um, I think we have to make a stand and say that. the public spaces are for city residents and that we need to be clever about it. If it s not something that we can do outright. Maybe we need to put signs up saying you can you cannot uh come in if you have your face covered unless it s like a medical mask or a uh a headscarf or something, just ideas of how we can protect our people and make it known that ice is not welcome here.

That would go a really long way. Also, the same idea of workshops. I second that. I think that the community is doing that, but not everybody knows how to get in touch with what s happening, and you guys are the, you re the face of what s happening here. If that can happen, if you can be the people who take on these roles. It would be really, really helpful and help to alleviate a lot of the fear that we re feeling. So thank you for your time and yeah, I just, we got to keep doing the next right thing. Thank you My my name is Nancy Phillips. I live at 1070 West Royal Oaks Drive in Shoreview. Um. So I m here, I was here for the workshop before the meeting for when the sheriffs were here. Um, it just uh I m still struggling with how I, how, you know, what they had to say.

I have a lot of respect for the sheriff s department. I know they have a, it s a big county, it s a lot of cities and you have a lot of responsibilities. Um and it s hard, it s got to be hard when you ve got law enforcement agencies that aren t really cooperating with each other and nobody knows what to do. That said um, a couple of things he said that kind of stuck with me a little bit, um He repeated this a number of times that they have made this decision and we cannot get into a realm of making people feel safe. Um which is like, ok, I thought that was kind of, I, I kind of felt safe because I knew you were around, but, um, that was uh seems to be their stated position They will not get involved in ice actions. So I can, again, I can understand it s another enforcement agency.

That said, um, there s a perception, I think data to say that the rule of law is not being followed in ice, all ice, so maybe it is a lot of the times. There certainly are a number of examples where the rule of law is not being followed, so that I m imagining someone can break my window and if a if a Ramsey County sheriff is there. He won t do anything. If he comes, if I see an armed man outside my house with guns. I, uh, Ramsay County Sheriff drives by. He MAY not do anything. I don t, doesn t make me feel safe. Again, it s hard. It s hard. Um. But I see there s a gap, and I ve heard you say a number of times, you re concerned with your city, with our city. Is to make people feel safe. Ramsey County Sheriff does not feel like they need to make people feel safe.

Um, so I don t know, and there s a lot of solutions I support pretty much everything that was said, but I say, please, please, given that the sheriff s department. Does not feel the obligation to make us feel safe. Would you please try? Overtly, objectively, loudly um. And I think information is good. If you can tell us what our rights are. If you can tell us what isi s rights are, that would probably be good. What can they do? You know, what is it that they re doing that they should, it would be nice if ice would say, you know, there s a few things we did that were. Wrong and we, you know, wish we would do it, you know. I d like to know what isis s rights are, and I can respect them for it. Uh, maybe But um uh, so what are our rights? What can we do, you know, what s uh, what, how do we, how do we go ahead and be a concerned citizen and and try to be a good community member.

And then there s data. I think another thing that he said, again, I liked him until about an hour later, I was just thinking about what, what was that I uncomfortable with. Oh, I m not sure there s been a lot of activity. We haven t got a lot of 911 calls. I don t think people are calling 911 when they see ice activity. I don t think I m on some signal chats and I m getting pings. It seems like every minute Um, they re not all inshoreview, but they re in this, this North metro area. So I don t, I don t trust the idea that he says, I don t think we re getting a lot of 911 calls is representative of anything. Um, I would expect that there are some places that are keeping track of things. It might be nice to, if there isn t any activity going on in Shoreview.

Maybe that would be nice to know. Maybe we re all worried about nothing cause it s all happening someplace else. I don t think that s true. But some data I mean, maybe you guys could do that. Here s what s going on in Shoreview and maybe with our, our, our, you know, Arden Hills, whatever that the local neighborhood, if you could just say here s what s going on in the the near, and at least in our school district, it would be nice to have that data. So that s my ask of you. It s just a um, I think you, you want to be neutral, you wanna be, but I think we want to be rule of law and right now it feels like rule of law is not neutral. Um, it feels like it s taking a side by saying, I believe in the rule of law. And that, s the problem.

So again, I ask for you. If the sheriffs can t get involved in in ice actions and they can t get in a realm of making people feel safe. Will you guys please try to get in that realm? Thank you Hello, my name is Aisha Elmquist. I am an Arden Hills resident but live right across the street, and I just wanted to follow up, um, on a couple of things that were just shared because I was also here during the earlier session, um, and I want to echo what s been said, um, which I know many of you share about the horrors of what s happening in our community. I ve had stories shared with me as well that I don t have permission to share here right now, but of ways that students and others are being affected, but a couple of things that were brought up in the earlier sheriff session, um, that I wanted to follow up on because I understand you all are going to be sending some additional follow-up questions because there was limited time for that, is the issue the flock cameras came up and um just thinking about those and I know information is limited in terms of where that is, that would be shared if it is in fact going to go up in Shoreview over the next, I understand there s no cameras here right now, but there will be cameras that are installed in Shoreview, and there are some um elsewhere is to consider um would the information, could it be subpoenaed, or are there ways that it could be collected, um, even if it s not actively shared, um, was, I think, an important question on my mind.

And then also thinking about, I know there have been a lot of people here who ve shared. There s people who are scared to come to this meeting, and there s people who are wanting to contact and share their stories, but are wondering what are safe ways to do that. And if they do email you or contact you in certain ways. It cannot information be subpoenaed. We re in a situation right now where there s a lot of lawsuits being filed, subpoenas being issued. And so really looking at if there are ways to contact you all that are in fact safe for people that can be shared out, um, so those are just a couple of thoughts that I have, but want to thank you for the earlier session and for the work that you are all doing to, address the horrors that are happening in our community right now. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, uh, my name is Daniel and I live on Evergreen Place.

Um. I want to speak to the idea that this is not here yet in Shoreview, that this is not happening yet in Shoreview. It is happening now in shoreview, if you open your eyes, you will see the cars driving around with no license plates. I called the sheriff about that yesterday. You will see the cars driving on completely blacked out with out of state plates. I got an email from the principal of my children s school, Island Lake, saying that there were ice cars driving by the school and so they had to go in from recess early, which you don t want to hear as a parent. They were behind Pinewood Elementary today, which I know is not in Shoreview, but there is it in Shoreview? Very close, um, they are here. This is happening now. My neighbors are terrified Um, I m trying to think of how to share some of these stories, um, in a way that doesn t.

That is impactful, but doesn t endanger anybody s security. Um I want you to understand that your constituents are terrified right now. I have neighbors who are naturalized citizens who are afraid to leave their house, who are carrying their papers in the country where they are a citizen. Um we have, uh, in the general area, a, uh, a family. Hosting another family because that family, it was here, invited by the United States government to have a safe place to live and is now cannot be in their own home. They are so scared to be uh there in their own home, um, and there s another family who is not leaving their house and their child was not able to go to school, um, and they have asked a stranger. Me, to drive their child to and from school every day with my children because they are too afraid to go to the school, they would rather entrust a stranger with their child, then trust their government to protect them.

I want you to understand that this is happening now It is real We need your leadership to help assure people of their rights? And to help with all of the ideas that have come forward, helping with paving the way for mutual aid, paving the way for a rent. Pauses or rent assistance paving the way for food distribution. I don t know what is in the of those things are in the realm of local government, but all the things that have been suggested. I want you to understand that this is happening now. It has been happening. These neighbors are leading the way and we need you to also be leaders here. Thank you Hi You can t die of a panic attack, right? It was not planning to say anything. Uh, my name

S Jessica Caon. I m on Woodduck Court, um, we do need the number for our records, so. Thank you. You re welcome. Um, my kid, brought a knife to school to protect herself a knife to school Do you hear that She s 11 Her best friend is an immigrant, and she is terrified. She thought that the only way to protect her friend was to bring a knife to school. Do you know what happened She

Sliced her fingers open. Had to go to the emergency room and get stitches She was suspended from school for trying to stand up for her, her community for her neighbors, more than what I m seeing. Out of these people right now. Your Facebook remarks are not enough. It s not enough, ok? Our kids are already afraid that they are going to get shot. School shootings, they re terrified. There is a sheriff at the school when they go to school. And now they re afraid that

Their mom might get shot in the face by immigration, murdered. Do you understand that? Fear? Do you? Like, show me. Yes, thank you. This is real, you guys. I m in the community every day. I spent 6 hours in the car on my own time. Helping my neighbors checking in with them. Do you have food? Do you have your prescription? You had knee surgery? Holy crap, you haven t seen your doctor for your follow-up? We have volunteers in the community who are going into these homes and making sure that our community, our neighbors are safe. That is your job We re supposed to support. You do your job. People are taking paid time off to take dispatch calls. We have created our own system to protect our neighbors. This is not right, and it is here. It is absolutely here. And the elephants in the room How many brown or black folks do you see in this room? How many minority people You all feel safe right now. Because you ve never had to experience that fear. Think about that Take it in and think

About it. Think about if you didn t come home because you stood up for your neighbor. And your kids never got to say goodbye to you. Thought you were gonna pick them up from school and you didn t because you were murdered. By federal law enforcement, if that s what you want to call it. Everybody here had really good ideas. I don t know what to say. But you need to hear that this is real. It is here, it is happening to our neighbors, to our community, and not a single one of you is safe. And if you think you are, wrong. Thank you. Thank you Hi, my name is Sandra Swami, and I live at 5950 Churchill Street. I ve lived in this community since 1992. I love my community and um I am here because I think it s very important that everybody here understand that this is a very real thing that s happening.

Um, 6 months ago, maybe something like that. I, I, I m the person that started that uh protest that s on the corner of 96th and Lexington. I m sure you ve seen it Thank you. Last week, I, I m really proud of all my community because I mean, last week it was cold. We had 60 people there till 5 P. M., half an hour longer than it was even scheduled to to be in solidarity because we all care so much about our neighbors and our community, and we are all 100% certain that this is affecting us. I m sure you know by now that there is a huge ice presence in all the hotels that are right around Target. I mean, every day there are um patrols that go and take photographs of license plates and their run through. We, the organization is phenomenal. I m, I learned how to use signal like 2 weeks ago.

I can t even believe the things that are happening, and it, it, it is a remarkable really how much this community has done to help and to continue to help and to further the help. Literally just now and I m sorry I was late. I work, but um I came between my last client and coming here, I read an update on Signal that today. An ice agent in plain clothes approached somebody from this mutual aid organization at an area school to ask about like, you know, how can I get involved in this? What can I do? This happened today and what they re trying to do is infiltrate and get information and the person that that this gentleman talked to started saying, oh, you get in touch with such and such a signal group and then somebody else said, hm this doesn t seem right. They followed him a block away to his car, his car is in a, his license plate is he is ice.

It was a person who is impersonating somebody else and they re trying to infiltrate the system to try to find out through our kids how to get to um our community members. Um, in my community in Shoreview, well, well, first of all, I want to make sure this young woman that spoke so lovely before me, said, you know, look around, we re all white. I m not white, and we re not all white. Um, I am an, a daughter of two immigrants and I was born in the United States, so I have legal citizenship, um, for now, unless Stephen Miller and Trump get their way, in which case I will not have legal citizenship. Because neither of my parents were citizens when I was born. And I never leave my home without my passport, without my birth certificate, never. That s not right. Um, I m grateful for my white hair, and I m grateful for the fact that it s winter, so my skin looks pretty light right now because I don t really present as so much as an immigrant and my entire life I have said that I have white privilege because of the fact that I ve never had to explain to my boys other than if you get pulled over by the police, please be respectful and answer their questions, but I ve never had to say, you know, what to do to protect themselves because they are light enough, they pass, but I also have a very close family member who s trans.

So this is entirely personal to me. I personally don t feel 100% safe, uh, when I leave my home in my community and because of my activism, I know. I know people know who I am. I mean, I know that, ok, so, um, but I do wanna say that. I ve been volunteering a lot, um, 01 other thing, I have new neighbors, lovely people that moved to this state to get away from oppression in another state, in a southern state, and because she s a professor, she could not do her job in that state because her university capitulated to the rules and regulations of this new administration. So thankfully, she found really great job here at the ufm, um, when I told her about my protest, she said, well, I would love nothing more than to protest with you, but I do not dare because I have, I am a naturalized citizen and I do not dare, and I mean these and this person s has a daughter who goes to school here and they re afraid for themselves, for their daughter, um, so.

That s on my block here in Shoreview. Um I do want to know that I volunteer with a local mutual aid group for this community, and I ve been going to different businesses in our community in Shoreview and just across the street in Arden Hills to talk to their staff about their Fourth Amendment to talk to them about their Fourth Amendment right. Um, most of them are scared to death when I start talking to them. You can see the fear in their eyes. Um, many of them have told me that ice is there, uh, in the daytime eating and it s well established that what they do is go to these restaurants to case out the restaurant and then they patrol in the parking lots and get people, I mean, you ve all probably heard about, I know it s not sure of you, but Pancho s tacos right up in Circle Pines just across the counter Road j.

That s what happened. Um, but I take whistle kits for their kitchen staff and all of them, every one of them come and thank me. Um, so this is a real fear that people have here in Shoreview. Um, when I went to the Starbucks that it s at the corner of Red Fox and Lexington, so technically that s Arden Hills, but um. One of the staff members there, lovely, uh Caucasian woman, so she was at the gas station across the street. So that is Shoreview and ice was there, um, questioning people in their cars, asking people to get out of their cars, searching their cars without, without warrant, of course, and she was, she was terrified. She saw that happening and drove away, but that happened the day before I went into that business, which I think that was on Sunday. So that happened on Saturday, um let s see what else was I gonna say to you?

Um, I, I just want to implore you to understand that this is a very, very real threat, and I hope our city takes leadership and helps our citizens but also helps to form coalition um to, you know, support what s happening in Minneapolis because that s a very real problem that they re having there. Um, then I m also here and I don t have her address. So can I speak first? She gave me her thoughts cause she can t be here. Can I do that or not? I think you can. Go ahead. Ok. I will, I will read you her words. She says, thank you for relaying my message. I m unsure if people are using their names or not, but I will share that I am a teacher in the Moundsview District, and this is a very real thing. Families are affected at school. We have families no longer attending school, and we ve had to pivot to distance learning for those families which thank you to the Mountainsview School District for doing that because I know in Anoka they re not doing that.

Um we are conducting emergency food shelf efforts to support these families. Other families not directly affected are instantly affected. Kids are scared. Kids are sad. Their friends and classmates aren t at school. Ice drove by during recess one day, and the school had to alert families. This is real. Schools have all had emergency ice meetings and have new protocols and safety measures in place. The city cannot sleep on this and think it s not happening here. It is daily. Students and families are reporting ice in in their neighborhoods, including mine, I teach and also live in the district. This is real. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Yeah, thank you. Anyone else, please. I m like everybody else. I hate speaking in public It s aversion. You do well. I could start over. Um, my name is Maria Nelson. I m at 1330 West Royal Oaks Drive. Um, I I just can t believe as a white woman,

That I am listening to these stories where people are afraid to leave their homes and afraid to send their kids to school and they can t pay their rent and they can t do this and they can t do that. We are a community of community. We all pull together outside of the city to get things done. And I, think I, I implore upon the council members and the leaders of the city of Shoreview to help us guide, help guide us through this very traumatic event. And hopefully I don t know, I m hoping the sun will shine sometime, I don t know. But I think we as the Shoreview Community Foundation also want to partner with the city to help support some of these families and some I, I just I m Italian, I m emotional. I don t even know, but uh leadership whoever talked about the leadership, we need strong leadership right now.

What we don t need is, with all due respect, Rebecca, we don t need, well, we really can t do that because, you know, I would love the city to step out of the box and set an example to other cities in the area and grab it. By the, you know, kahunas or whatever and just get things done. And if there s things that we as citizens can do to really become a united front and just bust through and say we are shore of you. We are proud, we support our community, we support the people in our community. We support the people that visit our community. We want to show the state and the United States that we got our the goodness of the people of Minnesota. That s all I got.

Thank you. I know I spoke already. There s someone who s listening online because they did not feel safe coming today, and I have a statement from them. Am I allowed to read that? Yes, I mean, you can. Thank you. Um, so these words are not mine. They re from someone who is afraid to come today because they can t, can t, don t want to share their name or their face in. A public setting i m speaking today because even though I was born in this country, I have become a target of daily harassment by ice agents. I live in constant fear, afraid I won t make it home to my parents, terrified to go to work or to be seen in public. I carry my passport everywhere, always looking over my shoulder to make sure I am not being followed home. I can t even sleep at night every footstep outside makes my heart race.

I have nightmares about them coming to get me. This is not what it means to live freely in the country of your birth. I m here not just for myself but to be a voice for those in our community who are too afraid to stand up here and speak. They re living with even more fear than I am, and they deserve to be heard too. No one truly understands until it happens to you, until you re the one living in fear in your own neighborhood. I m asking this council to listen and understand what is happening to real people in our community.

Thank you. Anyone else please feel free. Come on up Um, I m Lee Thornton. I live at 4800 Laura Lane, and I just wanted to thank everybody who showed up and the people who had great ideas and the people who expressed their concerns and, also to say just like everyone else has said it shouldn t have to be us doing the work. It shouldn t have to be us organizing outside here. It should be it shouldn t be us having to be here imploring city leadership to do something about what s going on out there, and I hope that actions will be taken and I hope that that we can get to a place where we feel safe in our city again. Thanks. Thank you Anyone else who d like to share, feel free. Oh ok. All right Sure ok I d love to hear from the council members. That s next. Ok. No, that s ok.

That s all right. I guess I just have a Uh, you need to please come up, uh, because for people at home they can t hear you unless you come to the microphone. Question. So like at the community center we have signs all over that say wristbands are required in all areas? So like the pool area and the playground area, you should have to have a commu uh wristband, right? Why can that not be enforced at a greater level, possibly maybe considered. Thank you. Thank you. Ok. Um. Anyone else All right So the next part of the meeting is um council comments and I did want to mention again, some of this stuff will require discussion, but Brad is taking notes of everybody s comments, so just know that. Um, so council comments and I don t know if there s a particular council member that wants to start tonight. Corey, do you wanna? Paul raised his hand first.

Oh, Paul, I m sorry, I couldn t see you There s no order here, so, um, well, normally for counsel comments, uh, we, we do talk about, you know, a lot of things happening in the community, obviously, we re kind of focused on one thing today, but I just as a member of the Shorey Northern Lights, uh, variety band. I do want to mention if you enjoy the sounds you re hearing over there, the, uh, uh, stage and screen concert is Saturday, APRIL 25th at 3:00 P. M. We d love to have people come to the concert. Uh, the conductor of the concert, Doctor Scott, uh, was telling us after rehearsal last week about um his children who are biracial, um, born in the United States, both their parents were born in the United States Um, but he s requiring his kids uh to carry their, uh, passports with them just because of the, the shade of their skin.

And he also teaches at a high school in Dakota County. Um and they have not had, at least as of last week, they had not had ice officers on the property of the school, but they are aware of ice following the school buses home to see where the students live and um so I I absolutely believe um what, what I m hearing from all of you today, and I really do appreciate you coming. Um this is a tough time for all of us, obviously. Um there are a few things I wanted to say and I m trying to, you know. Figure out the, the best order. Um, I, I think, um, we re aware of, um, a lot of different stories, uh, councilmember Gardiner has, has been collecting um a variety of accounts uh in from various news sources on, on his Facebook page of uh of abuses of power, um, abuses of um human rights, um, abuses of the law, um, as, as this.

Um action and surge in the, in the Twin Cities this happened and um you know, what I ve said is we can t even keep track of them all in any normal times, um, any one of the, probably a dozen things that, that Paul posted uh yesterday or the day before, would uh dominate local news, uh, for days in a row. Um.

If it was the Ramsey County Sheriff s Office of the Saint Paul Police Department. Uh, there d be press conferences and, and uh uh demands for change and marches and everything else for, for any one of these incidents and uh no, no local news station can even keep up with them all because there s too many, um. I know the probably the most defensive one I ve seen in the last 48 hours is the uh elderly Mog man in Saint Paul who was uh a us citizen and, and brought out of his home in, in the cold. Um driven around for a while and then brought back to his home, um, without an apology or restitution for the damage done to his property. And, uh, you know, certainly I uh I find these things, uh, despicable and um I, I can t uh I can t call them anything other than evil, and um so we, um, I think we all struggle as individuals, um on, on what we can and should do individually.

Um Certainly, uh as an elected body, um, you know, we, we do wanna hear uh from our our uh citizens and in Shoreview. Um I think we do struggle with, with what s the right balance, um. You know, we have limited staff with limited time. I know, um, Brad mentioned, you know, the vast majority of his work week last week, uh, was spent on, on these issues and he wasn t able to do the things that his staff expect him to do and, and that his bosses, the, the city council expect him to do. Uh, when he was dealing with all that and um you know, I m I m always open to, uh, to figuring out other ways we can um, we can support, uh, what s right. And so i m sure there ll be more discussions, um, we are obviously limited by open meeting while we can t just kind of have a open dialogue in, real time throughout the week, we have to give several days notice of the, of the public meeting, but um, so, so there are two things that are challenging, but um that s not to say that, that we, there s not more we could do.

Um um, I, know last, following the, the Roseville, um, City council meeting last week. I was sort of in a a state myself and, and uh spent most of Wednesday night, uh, drafting an ordinance, which I ve not done in 11 years on the city council. I ve never drafted an ordinance. I drafted a motion and you know, that s not the way we do things. If we have things that we think the city should be doing, you know, we ll, we ll talk to the city manager, uh, put it on a workshop, uh, you know, 1 or 2 or 3 months down the road. Get a sense of the council and um decide how to proceed from there and, and that was uh I, I thought, well, we can, we we can t do things the normal way, so, um I sent it to Brad, we had a long uh phone conversation on Thursday afternoon because the only reason I, I did as much drafting as I did is because this was like 4 hours before the agenda was gonna go out.

And so if we were going to consider anything in this meeting, um, we had to, I had to figure we d, we d go outside the norm. Ultimately, um, is, bread, uh, and I discussed, uh, everything that, that a separation ordinance would do, we re already doing operationally, and I feel that if I, if, if I did not feel that we had a city manager that um was already doing uh what s in his power to keep people safe in the community center. Uh, if we had reason to doubt that, that he was going to follow the will of the council, then, uh, then maybe we need to put something into an ordinance, but um I didn t ultimately see that um that there was anything that would accomplish that um that what Brad has already directed the staff to do, uh, is already accomplishing and um you know, let s look at the fact Saint Paul and Minneapolis are the only two states or cities in the state that have separation ordinances and look where most of the arrests are happening.

It s just, it s not a magic bullet. Um, so, um so I m, I m still, you know, I would guess back to the drawing board and figuring out what, uh what s, what s appropriate, um. For the, city to do with the limited resources that we have and, and what s, you know, I, I, I would like to know that anything we do is going to actually have some effect. Um so I, I, I, I appreciate all the input here today, and I m gonna take that to heart and um you know share my thoughts with, with Brad as, I am able. And keep listening to other people. I, I, uh thinking about the situation today. I actually called our former mayor, Sandy Martin, who s, I think by now in Utah for the Sundance Film Festival, but um we just want to get her take on it. I know she s been part of the, the uh actions that Sandra has led, um, so.

Um so I, I, I took her counsel to her and I, I will continue to, listen to everyone else here and, and uh try to try to do what I can uh to be of help, and we, we also want to not put the city in, in jeopardy. Um. Of, uh, you know, by, by overstepping our, our legal bounds, you know, we, we, we don t want to do anything that s gonna cause um legal action that that puts the city in a worse position, but, uh, to the extent that we can do things legally, um, I, I definitely think we should. I guess that s all I have to say at the moment. Arguments what that is? Uh, basically, uh, what s colloquially referred to as a, as um as a um sanctuary city, basically just legally saying that the city will not um provide assistance to, um, to immigration enforcement which are yeah, staff is trained.

Not to in any way assist with, which I don t think they would do anyway. So um you don t have enough staff. Work the things that might not be able to be done. Have you asked for a volunteers We ve got a whole grassroots thing going on here, and I bet you we could throw a lot of people volunteering for something that, you know, it would be and have us do The question people at home can t hear you, so, and, we ll, um, but the question was, um, or the statement and question was that there were that the remark was made that there wasn t enough staff and it, it would depend if we took on all the things we proposed tonight. I could tell you definitely there wouldn t be enough staff, but we also need to have a discussion kind of around priorities, what comes first, and I think a lot of really good points were raised here, and some of them MAY be easier to implement.

Than others, but they, uh, pardon me? Oh, and anyway, but the question was, you know, or the offer was there are a lot of people here in Shoreview that would be willing to volunteer to, to ask. So for the people at home that was um that was the question. So. Ok. Um, Councilmember Gardner, did you want to speak? Sure, thank you, Mayor. First of all, thanks to everybody who came out tonight. Usually, um, uh, no offense, the meetings are kind of a snoozer because we will we all run the city and we re talking about water and sewer and nuisance abatements and people s fences and uh we get the, the joyous, uh, meeting next time with the human rights um. Poster poster contexts, that s great. Um but, um, there s a couple of things I wanted to mention. At a bigger context. One is that we have an open meetings law, so it s been two weeks and a day, which seems like an eternity since their last uh council meeting.

And uh a woman has been killed since then, and ideas have been floated around and we ve had this no bad idea stage, you know, of what to do throughout the metro community, and we haven t had a chance by law to actually have a chat with each other, so we had a workshop at 5 and we bended around some thoughts, but um uh so if it feels like we re not talking about it, because we can t really cooperate with each other yet until right now. So, uh, I wanted to mention that. Um you know, there are two life experiences I ve had that are really informing my thoughts. Right now. Um. One of them is in 1989. I had a chance to study in the Soviet Union. Um, I was in a group of Americans who had studied Russian and Russian history and were recruited by the us government to go study it.

Uh Soviet universities to understand our Cold War enemy. Um. It was way more open than it is now, and nobody was being thrown out of windows either. Um, uh, not here but over there. Anyway, uh, in 19 in the 30s, Stalin was consolidating in his power, he required everyone to have an internal passport. It wasn t an external passport which you needed to travel abroad and internal passport, and you couldn t. Leave the house without your internal passport. That s how they control your movements. And your residency. And this is now happening with people in our country carrying around their passports and their documents. I m told by a defense attorney you should carry a copy of your passport because ice has been discarding your originals, so take that what you will. Um, and that was a police state, uh, we were expected to have all of our conversations recorded in every room we were at, so, um, we re not quite there, but there are elements of it that have encroached in our society this year that really concerned me.

Uh, the second one is I was born in a southern state in the Commonwealth of Virginia and I went to kindergarten just shortly after schools desegregated uh, remember the Titans, that movie with Denzel Washington takes place in 1970 in Alexandria, Virginia, when they merged two high schools, which was about half of or 10 miles from my house. Um, so the vestiges of Jim Crow were still there, and one of the there have been some ideas floated around, like with the Roseville Parks that give me a little hesitation because nuisance ordinances were used to harass people for the opposite reason that we re interested in, and I m just, I hope you don t set precedent for other communities later. Uh to do that, but, uh, they would require a permit for assembly in a parking lot, you know, so they, they would. Apply that just to black folks and not to white folks, and so that that s the first thing I thought of when I heard about.

Ordinances on assembly and parks, um. Well, anyway, uh, uh, overall, I m just, I m livid. I d wake up every morning angry, I go to bed angry. I turn on my phone and find out. Things that are dumb that shouldn t be said, um. Uh my uncle, my father and my daughter have all studied and worked in Greenland, so that s an issue that we re all following right now at our house. Uh, you know, the only way that we re gonna get out of this uh situation is for the surge to end. And I m seeing that there are things that are working. Um and that is that sunshine is the best disinfectant. All of those cell phone videos that people have been seeing have filtered all around the country and all around the world. I have people I know in other countries who are asking me what in the hell is going on Uh, and that is changed public opinion in this country, and that is what is going to help drive things if people have any sense, um, so everything you re doing is working.

Love the protest, by the way, my, my dog has been to that protest too. Yup, it s um Uh and other things are starting to turn. I noticed that uh there was a police press conference this morning. Uh, the rarest thing I think I could think of is for other law for law enforcement officers to criticize other law enforcement officers. I can t think of the last time I saw that where local chiefs of police said that what ice is doing is completely inconsistent with Minnesota Peace officers training, and they want it to end. And it should, um. Uh, that all that cellphone video is also going to help um back up, I don t know how many civil lawsuits that are going to work their way through the courts for years. Uh, there s videos are gonna to document behavior, if only for history and um to bear witness to what has happened during this year, but possibly to be used as evidence.

I would encourage anybody who is observing to just observe common sense and not to get yourself in a jam where unpredictable people with guns, uh push you around Uh, we ve talked in this council about due process over the last few months, about what happens when I shows up, uh, I m, I m very comfortable with, with the um staff has put together uh to help all of our 100+ staff know what to do. When I shows up, I know that MAY not sound too exciting, but um to have 100 people with all their own idea of what they should do is a recipe for confusion, confrontation, escalation, and even injury and death. Uh, that is not what we want, so that s actually a really important tool here and we have more than 1200 people a day on average come through this building and so we want that staff to be able to say you know, get out of the way or this is what s happening so that we don t have uh the worst that can happen Um, so this protocols are good.

I, uh, I did one, or. Sorry, I had so many things written down and I was actually late today because uh I forgot we were meeting at 4:30, and so I forgot my personal computer at home with my notes. Uh, I do want to note that uh well, maybe we re not thrilled with Ramsey County Sheriff s Department and being as vigorous as we might like, I, I do want people to distinguish between them and uh with these federal agencies are doing. We, have some other federal agencies that are actually quite good, but these two in particular have been going beyond their training. Anything they are doing, even any one of the things you ve heard publicized about what ice is doing. Or border patrol would be grounds for a suspension for any Minnesota peace officer. We know a lot more about their training and standards and recruitment strategies here in Minnesota because of the murder of George Floyd.

Uh, I have a lot of confidence in the Ramsey County Sheriff s Department and uh just regularly and we haven t had the same kind of behavior that we have seen elsewhere. Uh, that said, uh, I understand there worry about being in the middle of something, um. I still think calling 911, if you see something illegal going on, is good. Uh, documenting something for future use could be handy. Um, I can t say much more than that, um. Idea yet Uh, Governor Purpi, uh, who has relatives here in Shoreview? Uh, said no one is as smart as all of us. And I ve been just grinding my brain for the last week, figuring out what our role is, if any, and um thought that I had it all figured out and then the public came here and you shook up my thinking about ideas that we could do. Some are hard, some are easy, some are things that we should do better.

And I wanted to just throw some of those out, if I MAY, mayor. Um, the attorney General of Minnesota has a web page where you can enter things that you have seen that these federal agencies are doing. Um. Mayor, I know that there are people in this audience on encrypted phone chats who know more about what ice is doing in Shoreview than we do. Because Shoreview doesn t tell the sheriff s office they don t, uh, post what happened to people they ve apprehended or they re monitoring in Shoreview, uh, no reporter is able to go to the Whipple building and say, who have you locked up today like you would at the Ramsey County Sheriff s office. Uh uh, I do not think that the federal government actually is keeping track of everybody. They, they detained and sent to Texas a legal resident who s a snowplow driver in Minnesota. Talk about your essential essential employees.

But I did, I m just a thought, uh, and I don t know how easy it is to do and how secure it would be, but if some of those folks on those channels could do something like the Attorney General as for sure of you and just type in I saw this at this hour. I mean, it doesn t mean it s actionable item, but I think we need to bear witness of what s going on in our own community, and we should know about it. Um I ve, uh, on the signs, um, I had a more um uh passive aggressive approach here. We have signs that say Sureview is welcoming them all, and if we say accept this group, I, I, m sure that would show up on dhs s social media somehow, but uh. To say Sherby was welcoming to all, uh, and we expect everyone to comply with the Constitution and all applicable laws, and by the way, we have security cameras on, you know, with the receipts is.

It s not the exact language I would suggest, but I, I think there s some wordsmithing we can do to show people that we re paying attention. I did read an article over the weekend, uh, from a sociologist who said uh, the observers of ice are actually making us safer. Because when armed people working together, uh who have the ability to use force, see that someone is paying attention and recording what they re doing They are more likely to stick more closely to their training. Um. Now assuming they had any, uh, that s doesn t mean that what they re doing is necessarily what we want to do and civil rights MAY be being violated, but it doesn t mean that people are being violent. Um. So letting people know that we have cameras in this building would actually be quite helpful. Uh, I did take the heart, uh, comments about, um, how outfront we are with messaging, uh, we actually did have a page with resources that was put together by a human rights commission when we were discussing this 4 or 5 months ago and then I think we overwrote it on the on the website maybe, and I think we could probably pull a more comprehensive set of resources on the page, um.

In Ramsey County has one as well. Um, and at the workshop, mirror, you were talking about more outreach, um. Which I like, talking to our faith communities. And COUNCILMAN Bradon, you were talking about reaching out to a businesses to make sure that they know their rights and the rights of their employees. I think those are both good ideas and I think, you know, as part of our proactive work in the community anyway, um we should have a strategy and I would be more than happy to be part of that and talk to our schools and while we can t solve everything we can at least communicate to people what is going on, what we can do, what we are doing. And just give people some comfort, um. Um, I m really glad people told us their stories because that helps ground me in what we re doing, um uh, I ve also seen a sign about non-medical face coverings that could be a good idea.

I have a sample sign that I took a picture of that could be good. The um I just wanted to say, I think all of us have some story here. Um, I have a professional colleague. She s from the Indian subcontinent, and we had a 3 hour workshop at this nonprofit board I m at. And she asked if she could be on Zoom because she didn t want to leave her house in Plymouth uh, which we did, um. I have another professional colleague who has a classmate who s in his 40s, born in California, raised by parents from Vietnam. And he was pulled over by uh Ice for jogging. And they took him into the vacuum suv and talked to him for an hour and he put up enough of a justification for why there s no reason they should hold him and let him go. I ve got another professional colleague, um she and her, she and other parents are working a two hour continuous watch with a shift offer every 2 hours outside their children s Spanish immersion childcare.

In Minneapolis, um. You know, parents are being whisked away at bus stops. In front of their kids um you know, even if there s some legal justification for some probable cause for detaining somebody, and there usually isn t in these what we ve seen, they certainly could do that in a more humane fashion. So anyway, my, my, my main takeaway is I think we could uh, we should find out where ice is operating from the people here. Uh, I think we could do some more proactive, uh, outreach to all of the community groups, which we should do anyway, and we are doing anyway, but be focused on this, uh, and I think we can upgrade the information we have online and I think uh matches what our intent is. Anyway, um, I had a much more cohesive on my notes, uh, that I left at home before I, I still have my long johns from when I was walking my dog and then Brad called me and said, you re late, and I just jumped in the car.

So I didn t bring my my notes, but um those are my thoughts. I think uh we re all learning as we go along here. I never, this is something we never thought we d have in life s bingo card that our own government would be asking for our papers and detaining people without charge or probable cause it requires a response and the response I ve seen from the people of Minnesota has been amazing. And uh there s light at the end of the tunnel, uh, although the tunnel s kind of caving in as we go, uh, but uh, it s gonna be, it s gonna get worse before it gets better, but I want to thank all of you for coming out, for expressing your concern without you, uh, speaking up. A lot of people would do nothing and you re certainly putting a fire under my seat, and I appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank, you. I just want to thank you all for coming here today and um telling your stories um the last couple of weeks have been surely um uh history in the making, and um we re all watching it unfold. And um a lot of us don t really know what to do. Um I m not comfortable, uh, you know, putting on armor and uh uh protecting my street, uh, being armed, um, I certainly don t want to see um Ramsey Coney, Sheriff, um, in a, uh, a gun slinging match. With ice. I don t think anybody here wants to see that. Um I was appreciative that they came to our workshop today to talk about what they are seeing what they are doing. And that um. Uh, you know, they. Their job is to um help us in our time of need. And um I understand their neutrality. Um because again, we, we can t have them. Um, chasing around ice in our neighborhoods. And causing uh problems and um altercations in

Front of our homes. Ok, you know what, this is uh wait. Ok. All right. I just wanna have some Yes. All right. I carry it with me everywhere. Yeah, ok. I understand that. All right was there 20 All right was there 20 minutes afterwards. Do you know what I did? They went 2 blocks over restaged and terrorized. After they murdered someone and you re talking ok. Well, I want to excuse excuse me, but, but this is my turn. To talk about my interpretation of what Ramsey Coney said to us today

In the workshop. Or this isn t, I m, I m gonna be very clear on this to that with this is not a discussion no one can hear you and you re surely welcome to follow up with feedback or, but Shelly does deserve the right tos or vote absolutely, but Shelly also has the right to share her opinion. So the Ramsey County deputy that was here today. Uh talked about. Their neutrality and um how they don t have the authority to go and arrest ice. They don t have the authority to stop them. And as citizens, we don t either Now some of you are protesting some of you are making others know um, that ice is in your neighborhood. And keeping watchful eye. Um, there used to be names for that in neighborhoods, um, watchdogs, I believe is what they call them. And I think those things are all admirable. Um some of the comments about the city, you want the city to do more. Um,

Like Paul mentioned. We can t just have a quick meeting and talk about it. We have to plan it and make a public notice. And tonight really was our first meeting. Since all these things happened. So um, we ll probably have another meeting. I m guessing we re gonna have to talk about all these things again. And we ll have to schedule a public notice. So, um, it s an open meeting just like it is tonight. Where all of you came So I m appreciative of you watching out for each other. And for letting us know.

In these little secret channels that you re talking about. I ve never heard of them. Um, I try not to uh watch a lot of social media. Um, You know, I work I excuse me. Shelly deserves to talk, and I understand you made her comments MAY make you angry, but this is not, this is not a debate at this point. So, you want to continue to have this conversation and attend. We need to have order here. And I get it. Let us all speak. We let everyone else speak. So I, and that is this part of the meeting, so please, Mayor, if I MAY, yes. So myself and our assistant city manager had the opportunity to speak to, I think, every single one of you when he came in, and we had a nice conversation about the purpose of this meeting and uh welcomed the opportunity for those to speak to the council. Um, this is the business community of the city council.

And they had this opportunity to listen to you for over an hour. The email addresses are available. Their phone numbers are available. I am available. Every single person who s emailed me or called me, I ve called back and had as long as conversation as they, as they wanted to and as had the council. Mayor has office hour has coffee, a coffee with the mayor. No one came. No one came today. That s right. The mayor and council are putting themselves out there every day to be contacted outside of this venue. This ultimately is the business meeting of the city council at this point. So I just need people to understand that I am available on my contact information is on the website. Thank you ok. Shelly, please continue. Ok. Um, so again, I appreciate the information that you ve shared I feel really bad that kids are afraid to go to school. Um when you live in a city as great as that we live in and how safe we normally feel.

It s um, it s frightening and sad. To hear that crumble and that dissolve and um certainly tonight in between the meetings, I walked around City Hall and it s very active here tonight. There was. Preschool, open house for registration coming up and kids playing basketball and kids in the jungle gym and lots of people swimming and um I hope they feel safe here, um, while they re doing those activities. But according to what I m hearing from the people in this room there s a lot of people that don t feel safe and we need to know that, and we needed to hear it, and I appreciate that, so it s all I have to say ok Council memberone Thank you, Mayor. Um I ve been thinking a lot, not only tonight and listening to you. But also um listening to my family and to lots of things that are being posted, um, I think that at times it s just been tough, um because as a person of color, I have privilege I have the privilege of living in this city. In this state and in this country and we are an unprecedented times because this last week, I did

Something really unprecedented. I told my wife that I need to go to our safe. And take out my passport card and put it in my wallet because the risks of being who I am as a navy veteran as an immigrant, and a refugee from Vietnam. As a naturalized citizen and as a shoreview City council didn t matter. It just didn t matter. Until I could at least prove this. Well, being a savvy politician I guess is maybe some what some people would call me. I did one other thing I also reached and got my va card. And put it in my wallet because damn it, I m a patriot. And if that doesn t prove something to whomever with three initials is gonna stop me or pick me up. Then what else do I have And so I ve been struggling back and forth. I ve had many conversations with Brad. With our mayor uh, with you all in the audience about what we can do And I ve come down to 5 key principles that are guiding my decisions, and I want you to know what those 5 key principles are.

The first principle I learned from and I was reminded by actually, by council member Gardiner, which is that sunshine is the best disinfectant, and that we need transparency and we need documentation and so I applaud all of you for doing what you re doing to document to record and to save this for history because this is history that is being made. And we need the truth to be documented. Um, and that s how I think this is going to hopefully at one day resolve. The second principle that I m using to make whatever decisions we as a council can come to. Is around community and particularly the word unity in community. Is how do we do this together and not shred each other apart. We have lots of different opinions in the city. We have different opinions on this council. About how to get things done but in the end, we have to have some semblance of community and unity.

To move forward because we re gonna be here or at least I hope I will be here with you for a long time after. This ice stuff ends after this PRESIDENT S term ends after all of this has passed. We re still going to be around and we need to deal with the consequences. The third part, the third principle is that we need to play the long game. What I ve heard uh, from others when I was on a couple of phone calls this past week with other local elected officials is that um the hotel contracts that have been signed for where the ice agents are staying are somewhere between 90 and 180 days. This is not a problem or a situation that s going to disappear tomorrow or next week. We need to be in this for the long game. We need to make clear strategic rational, and lawful decisions. As a city and as a community because we have to play the long game on this.

Fourth we gotta get things done, but we gotta make them count. We can do a lot of things. We can put up signs. I can handcuff myself to a rail in front of the front door here. We can all do a lot of things but what s gonna count What s gonna make a difference. I don t want the city to get in the way of you all doing good work And there are a lot of things that we all as citizens can be doing. And I know that you re doing and I think I m doing as a citizen. But my worst fear is the city getting in the way of that good work, and you have to understand that the city is process driven because we have to abide by the laws of the state that created us as a city. And we have due process, and we believe in it. And so we can t be the ones breaking our own rules.

In order to get something done So just understand that there is desire, strong desire. And belief that we need to get things done, but the question is how do we get them done and what s gonna count. I do want the city to champion things where we re uniquely qualified and equipped to make a difference I don t think that s managing a signal chat. I don t think that that s necessarily trying to train constitutional observers. But I do think it is to convene and to bring together our faith community to say how can we help our neighbors? I do think that it is bringing together our business community, say, how can we as a city, work with our business community to make sure that they survive through what I m calling a humanity pandemic that we re going through that was self-created. So. I m open to hearing from all of you what we can do that s gonna actually count.

I m happy to go on the record as a city council member to take a stand? That s great I ll do it in public. I ll do it on the record. And let s make it count And the last thing that the last principle and this is a very practical one because I m an engineer. Is that the beauty of a city council, at least this city council, of 5 members, is that we take action when we get to the magic number of 3 If I have 2 colleagues with me who believe in this purpose and this mission and the role of this city. To move forward in whatever action that is I ll be there I need my colleagues and I need you to help us to have the moral fortitude and to have the political will to get to 3. With that I just want to share that uh while this while we are playing the long game here that the slice of shoreview is in less is in about 6 months.

And that by that time I hope we can all look back on this day. To say that we did something in this time of need for our community that made a difference. Thank you. Well stated. Thank you So I had a whole list of comments tonight, but I think like council member Gardner I feel upended by what I ve heard tonight. And I think the biggest concern that I ve heard tonight is that there s a whole um I m gonna say undercurrent or this activity that is happening and being communicated and. We all, I think, have our own networks or places that we follow. I ve been speaking with untold amount of mayors to see what they re doing in their cities and what their people are feeling and etc. But it really concerns me or concerned me tonight that there s so much going on that isn t making its way to us because we re residents as well.

I ve got 35 years in. I don t know how we ve got a lot between all of us. Um and so that s the first thing that kind of rattled me tonight, and it s, it s rattling me in a good way, but it has um I think. Pointed me in some directions in which we can make a difference for sure, actions, uh, but I also think council member Don, you raised a really good point where I think we all want the same things, which is to make people feel safe to have information that people who are don t know where to turn, can easily go for whatever they need, whether it s to report an incident, find out what the schools are doing, so, uh, I think that is what I m hearing here, um, support for those in fear. If they need food, if they need a ride, um, that s something else, and I think just this um humanity that is not being expressed by unfortunately by the ice agents doing their job, ill-trained.

Not skilled in many ways, um, and we all know that, but for people not only to feel safe, but to feel like they ve got a community that will support them. Not just their neighbor, not just, and I get that, and I m hearing that tonight. So I want to let you know those are, that s the bulk of what I am hearing, and also there are also concerns is Ramsey County doing everything they can. Um, they re on a fine balance, uh, with not being seen as an obstruction that then MAY result in more federal agents here. And I think one of the reasons, one of the things I keep thinking about because I follow the news very closely, um, my daughter is the nurse at Roseville Area High School, and not only hears the student s fears daily, um, staff concern, etc. Um. But just I think that there is part of this chaos that we re seeing from federal law enforcement ice, not sharing information with the local authorities.

They have no idea where ice is going to be. None. Um, unless there would be an arrest, a local arrest that they not related to um immigration, um, but I think they are trying to instill chaos here. I think they re using the same techniques to try and pit people against their government, against their law enforcement, in other words, that no one trusts anyone. And so when I am reading information or thinking about what the city can do and what other cities are doing. I keep that in the back of my mind and while I MAY be frustrated, with, for example uh, the Ramsey County Sheriff for I also am thinking, I m not going to make them my enemy. I m going to do everything I can to not be fighting against the same people that we need to support us, so we don t get more federal agents in here or or other punitive actions.

I was at a meeting, um, with these mayors last week and Mayor Fry came in and I don t know if he knew what the temperature in the room was like. It was very cordial towards him, but you never know where people s political perspectives might be.

But when he came in and he was asking for help, um, from law enforcement agencies, those with police departments to ask officers to help with overtime because they re stretched so thin that the that his police department is struggling and he didn t want to burn them out. And when he came, he opened with this statement, he said, there are 600 members of the Minneapolis Police Department. There are were upwards of 30 00 agents scheduled to be arriving, and he said, there are more illegal immigrants in the state of Florida than there are residents in Minnesota. There are more illegal aliens, aliens, I m sorry, illegal immigrants, illegals. I hate to use that term, but, um, in Texas, then there are residents in Minnesota. So why are there upwards of 3000 agents here, and I know the second imperative that got them here was investigating fraud, but I think you know, we, I, I don t know what that means because that s a general statement, but that really hit me when he said that, because we know that does the rest of the nation realize some do, some don t, and I think unfortunately the killing of uh Renee Goode.

If it did one good thing, it s that which it is an awful thing. I, that I think has alerted the attention of much of the nation when they re actually seeing the video of what happened, the versus what they re seeing. So I do want to share that I, I believe that everyone in this council is, well, I m not gonna say everyone, but like Councilor member Gardner. You don t sleep, I make up, you know, wake up thinking, how can this be happening? Um, but it is, so I think we are all human beings and we are feeling it too. And I think in our own families, I gotta watch so I don t get emotional. We all experienced this. But i m not hearing it from the residents, as much as I would hope. In other words I m not getting emails I have from residents and have called them back. A lot of concern about kids in schools and I being in parking lots, but I, I m concerned that I m not even hearing these anecdotally and even were I to sit on next door, I might be missing it on another threat or another or another.

I too have my goddaughter Carrie s, she s adopted since 8 months old from another country. She carries her license around and is a single parent she s terrified that she couldn t get to her son. Sorry So I want you to know that we all experienced it, but we re not hearing it from residents, and that does concern me. Oh, that s ok. I was a Kleenex. I m sorry But I want you to know that we hear you and we re experiencing it, but I do want to hear it from residents, so it s critical, I think that when someone does feel threatened, uh, feels like they re being followed. To call 911 to report it because it isn t visible to the community, other words, and I think, uh, Councilor Merrick Gardner, you referenced to this as well. If you need this data the same way that our federal legislators who have offered, you know, their phone numbers, they want to hear from you because even if they re fighting against uh a different political party and they re in the minority.

They have that data to go in and say this is how many people, you know, I m hearing this from my residents. It s also important this uh website that uh or form that just was put up by Attorney General Ellison to report instances, things that have happened to you, they don t have to be that your car window is broken, but it could be that I am, you know, I have got ice circling my neighborhood constantly. It could be as small as that, which is not small if it s happening to you, but I think it s critical that we report this at the federal level, and that s something as an individual we can all do. Um, and I think Ell I son s uh, form is a, is a safe place. The aclu also has a form online. It s a safe place. They re not gonna share that information. They ll be discreet, and they can take legal action, but I do think it s really important, um, that people do share that and if you re hearing from your neighbors, the same constantly, the same kind of stories that we re hearing tonight.

That s good for us to know Brad meets with the Ramsey County Sheriff, and having that type of information and the amount of times that it s happening can move people even if they haven t moved before. So, and again, I m sorry for being emotional, but um I do think um let s see, that like uh council member Gardner, I lived for um some months for work. I lived in a third world country. It happened to be the Philippines, so it wasn t communist, but a country with not much rule of law, and when we talk about rule of law, that that s not just this pie in the sky type thing. That means following the law on the, you know, following the Constitution, due process means that no matter what country, who you are if you are on us soil, you have due process rights, and we know those are not being honored, um, but that is something that means something to me cause I ve experienced living in a country where there was no predictability.

Because there wasn t adherence to rule of law. So if you haven t had that experience. When you, it s jarring when you see that or people that are afraid to speak up. So, uh, when I talk about it, I m taking it quite seriously cause I ve seen what that s like or been in uh countries where there were the teachers went on strike and there are machine guns mounted on vans that we had to walk by. It, it s frightening, it s scary, and it never leaves you. So, um, anyway, I did want to encourage everyone to uh report as best you can or encourage people to um call 911 if they re seeing something and um and report even at the federal level, I think all of these data points help these leaders. You know, it helps arm them with the information. Um, I won t take too much time, but um so I think I heard a lot of things tonight that I thought were good ideas and as I said, like from council member Doan, there are some things that I think the city would not be great at doing, um, that other agencies are, however, I do think.

Um, there are opportunities to share information. I talked to one mayor, I believe it was Columbia Heights. They ve got a card all the restaurant owners had put cards on the table, little cards that give people information about what their rights are and on the other side gives contact information. I m not suggesting it, but I thought, well, that s really a great idea, and I think they re also doing that in Northfield. So I think information is key, um, and for those people that are afraid, um, to go out if we provide them online links to resources they can use. So I really think it s about what can help make people feel safe is shared information contact information, where to get things. I think information on what churches are doing. Some of them are offering the same programs that others are the food resources Ralph Reeder, who will deliver to you, um uh, and I believe they re also, well there are groups that are providing transportation as well.

I m not sure the city would be as efficient as everybody as. Um as another group that s already doing it that needs community volunteers to do it, and I know there was one I just read about um that we need a community of volunteers to take people to doctor s appointments who are afraid to go themselves, etc. But I think we re all working towards the same goals. So, and I think the critical thing is that we share this stuff we agree on what s critical, um, and, and not make assumptions about others and as things evolve, you know, as more information is out there. The Ramsey County sheriff MAY not know about all these incidents that people are experiencing, and the fear maybe they can t allay, uh, I don t know, but, I think we can do things to make people feel safe, that information, contact information, and maybe it s a matter of the volunteers that are in the community that want to get connected with a group that is already providing transportation, for example, or those types of things.

And I think I did not realize how um, many people didn t feel like they had a quick and easy way to access that. So I understand. Um, I don t have a good summary. I m sorry, I kind of got off track, but yes, I was just thinking about um next steps here, uh, there is a mutual desire to communicate more and communicate more strongly on a variety of fronts, and I think there s a lot of expertise in our audience. And I m, and we have had some thoughts that we expressed in the workshop about reaching out to the different entities in our community business and faith, and I m sure talking to our. School communities would be good too, but um we should formulate some sort of outreach plan here. Um. Uh, sometimes I think everybody knows everything, but I m finding no, no, that s not the case, so I, I, and I think we need to not only hear from people, but have more sharing and I m, I don t know what.

I still knew, but I m wondering if even a workshop would be in order. Uh, that might be an official meeting, um, between now and the next council meeting where we could have sheriff s department, we could have faith leaders, we could have school leaders and just um work through this because I, the, the things are changing by the day, um. I think that it s not gonna solve everything, but it s going to help us. Uh incorporate some expertise that we have from different entities and individuals and just see where it goes. I I, um, hesitate to do that to suggest that because I know how much bandwidth that we don t have and then it places a lot of burden on staff and I know our staff has been working around the clock just to get where we are now, um. But I think at least on the communication part and outreach, I think there s got to be some forum where we can talk and adapt to these changing circumstances and do it quickly.

So, I agree. I maybe I have touched the third rail as the newest member, as in never suggested no, but I think I would encourage too that I know for people who maybe didn t come tonight, but. If we keep those goals in mind of improving people s feeling of being safe, you know, if we keep that in mind, um, by for sharing information by collective, collecting resources that people can access. I, um I think sometimes we put solutions before what our goal is and I think if we, the overarching goal of being a safe community but also how safe can we, uh, make it even for people who are afraid to leave the house. Honestly, we cannot control that. However, we can provide them access to this plate where they can make a call, get food, um, that type of thing, um, and then, uh collect as much contact information around uh, you know, making sure you re covering the basis for what needs are and then um the places to file reports and really do encourage people then to dial 911, um, you know, if people have stories they want to share or I would also encourage them to and all of you to let us know cause I ve really received very few, and it s been the first thing I ve gotten in the morning, i ve gotten up to do is, do I have messages?

Do I have messages of people I need to call back, but I think if we make our goal to work together to make people feel safe, and we can, I think we re gonna need to talk as a council about where, where s the hate this term, low hanging fruit. What can we do immediately which might be contact information or feel free to um uh email or have other people email if they ve had experiences. But I do think we need to report this. The data s got to be out there for us to convince perhaps the Ramsey County sheriff, they need to do more. I m not saying we can alert our federal authorities give uh Attorney General and the aclu information they can use for legal action. Um. So, uh, that s a start, but we do, we will need to regroup and, and talk about what, what it is we do cause we alternatively, uh, certainly we can be getting together with folks in the community, but with less than 3 of us.

So it isn t necessarily an official meeting and has to be posted in we have to organize schedules and things, but with open meeting laws, I can t email the council. It that s like a meeting that the public isn t have access to it, s a state law. So I emailed Brad if I need to get something out to the council and like the three of us can t go out and have a cup of coffee or, uh, so just let you know that s why. Um, you know, I can t just send an email tomorrow and say. Let s, you know, so anyway, but we, we will work within the parameters of that, so, um, I don t know if you had something to add. Marion Collins just for kind of the business meeting here. Um, we do have 3 items of general business, and I know there s members of one of the items sitting in the public too.

Um, there is the option at the end of the meeting, the special order of business, if some, the council wanted to amend the agenda to add a brief discussion about next steps at the end of this meeting. That could be an option or um you and I could discuss this and work to schedule something that could work Maybe we could talk in the next day or so and schedule something as well. So I just want to be, at some point we got the business meeting to get to as well. Yeah, because I think we ve, I ve heard openness to um, you know, not trainings I, I think that would not, there are people that do that and I know they re packed, but we don t want to take that on. That would, that s not practical for the city to do that, but there are some things that we can work on and do uh fairly quickly.

Council member Bradon. Well, we re all trying to get through this together and uh as I say, we re learning by doing, and I m sure we ll make mistakes, but I think we have to keep uh, talking to each other and figure out how to support each other and lean on each other, and I, I don t know exactly how to do that, but I think we need to chat in some fashion. It doesn t have to be an official meeting or but right. Anyway, that s my, that s my input. Yeah Council member surrogate said it for me. I actually, I, um, I did have one other thing to add to councilmember Gardner s, um. Uh, suggestions. Uh at the, uh, last item on our agenda, which is called I don t have the agenda in front of special order of business order of business. Thank you. We, we actually never really used that last special order of business, but um I intend to make a motion.

Uh, that we have a uh special workshop, however, it needs to be phrased between now and the next council meeting so that we can work on what our outreach plan is and what other things that we think are in the purview of the city. To help support. The safety of our residents and visitors to. The city of Shoreview. So just know that I will, I m just going on the record right now, just, uh, that I will be making that motion, um, at the special order item and I don t have a date certain, but I, but the direction is, uh, that I make in that motion is for staff to help, uh, figure out what that, when that could be. Right. Ok. All right. So, we will be we ll um decide on that during the special order of business tonight, but I did want to tell, I know people have been sitting here for a long time, and I And thank you for letting me have a small breakdown on the daus that s on film, but I do want to seriously thank you for being here.

I hope that this what being safe looks like is gonna be different for a whole lot of people. So if there is something that you, uh, I think we need to focus on how we make people feel safe. So your ideas for that, if they haven t been mentioned tonight, please send them in, um. And, and for those that are afraid or at home or have had an experience that wasn t reported, please encourage them to go to the Attorney general s website and report it. Um, the aclu also has a website where where you can report it. The dog does doj does as well, but the, no, I, anyway, that you, we know that um attorney General Ellison is very active and, and is doing everything that he can from a legal standpoint and that s important too. Um so I do encourage people to do that if they haven t experience, call 911 report it, um, and then call your um federal legislators and let them know what you think and you can let them know often, and they do take that data, in fact, one of them had told me better than emails, calls, and they do keep that and they use that as leverage when they go in and try and take action at the federal level where all this chaos is you know, the, is the origin of that.

So um anyway, stay tuned. Thank you. If you think of something else, feel free, feel free if there are other people that are angry and think we re not doing enough or just feel that we aren t doing enough or more could be done and ideas please encourage them to email us. Um, we usually funnel things through Bred only because if we get multiple messages, we don t want to be, we want our messages to be consistent, um, and we can t send things to each other in groups, so um, but please keep um encouraging others to report this stuff so we know what s really going on. ok? And not that we don t, but like I said, we re, I m kind of with my family protecting my family and working with other mayors, so we just MAY not be aware of what people are experiencing here and are not able to share or don t even feel comfortable sharing with us, and we will follow up soon at um.

So thank you very much Yes, and learning. And learning So thank you And feel free, you can stay for the rest of the meeting if you d like. It s really good. Um now where s my agenda? The next item on I think a few I would too English or other language? Which English is ok. Ok. We had someone offer some items, oh. Brad, does that have to be official? Ok. These are less than $5 a piece, right. Ok. Sure. You can take them and hand them out afterwards. Now,

What did I do with my agenda, we have gift laws don t we? What do you want to do now? Ok, awesome All right. So, in my I find my agenda again. There it is. Um, the next item on our agenda, um, we don t have any public hearings. Oh, I m sorry, it s consent agenda. We ve got items there, so the consent agenda, um, are items that are considered routine and can be enacted by one motion, um, so I looked to council to see if anyone wanted to remove something for discussion from the consent agenda we have uh 6 items tonight at items 8a through 8f. Otherwise I ll look for a motion. Move approval of items 8a through 8f. Second. Um, we have a motion by Council Member Springhorn and a seconded by council member Don to approve the 6 items on the consent agenda, all in favor, please say aye. All opposed I also all oppose same sign.

Motion passes 5 to 0. The next item is public hearings. We do not have any public hearings scheduled for tonight, but we do have 3 items of general business, um, and item 10a is a nuisance abatement for 556 Vicky Lane and our assistant Community Development director will present Nikki Hill. Thank you, Mayor, members of council. I am here tonight with a nuisance abatement hearing for 556 Vicki Lane. The property, as you can see, is located kind of more mid-block of Vicky Lane here. The city council is being asked to order an abatement of the public nuisances for the property, and the council does have the authority to declare and abate nuisances on private property that do not comply with the city s property maintenance standards. For the description of the offenses, it is related to outdoor storage and then parking of recreational vehicles as well as vehicles that do not um meet setbacks and not.

Parked on proper surfaces So this past year, during the Shine inspections, cd Code Enforcement and staff found the violations of the parking location, outside storage and refuse on the subject property. And we did contact the property owner, um, after the AUGUST 20th reinspections for no corrections, um, reinspection was moved to SEPTEMBER 30th. Where there was some progress with corrections, but our view is still not moved from the parking location. And then between OCTOBER 10th and 14th, the property owner maintained regular contact with progress in a plan to complete the corrections, but since then there had not been much for corrections and then from DECEMBER 1st to 12th, no contact was made. More outside storage had been added, and then we did an inspection today and the rv has moved to the driveway, but now there is a truck that had been in the driveway that is now parked in that same spot that is not meeting our setback requirements.

There is parking on the grass and there are also outdoor storage issues. Still. So staff is recommending that the city council conduct the required hearing and adopt resolution 2603 approving the abatement of the nuisances at 556 Vicky Lane. And then the order dose specified the corrections required to bring the property into compliance and would permit the city to abate the conditions, and if the council approves the motion, staff will move forward with the abatement. If they are not corrected Questions Counsel, what questions do you have? Any Council member Gardner? Just a comment I would still new here, but I was oh, excuse me, this is the Vicky Lane, never mind. I m good Thank you. Um, I think my only question with this one was it, it just seemed as if we were making progress and then the progress stopped, but the situation hasn t just been or it s not just resolved, but it almost seems like it s worsening in terms of or not, nothing s changing.

There, s been minor corrections, but then it kind of just seems to evolve back and forth, and it s never been fully corrected. Ok. And they, the property owner isn t interested. I hate, to see, yeah, intermittently, ok. But when they stop making contact is when we have to afford that abatement. Right. No, I understand that. I just, I hate to see somebody pay an expense because the city has to hire somebody to do it rather than taking action themselves, but it looked like in this situation when I read the packet that. There had been con they that residents understood what they should be doing or that what, what wasn t in, you know, fitting code and then we re not taking action and then no communication either. So, yeah, and I mean, if an abatement is ordered, there will still be opportunity for them to correct it before we actually move forward because we will go, we will get quotes, we will tell them how much it will cost.

Yeah. We will tell them when we are going to do it and if they get it corrected before then, which is what we hope. Right then we don t move forward with that abatement. Ok. All right. That was my only question. So Mary Counsel, this is not a public hearing, but we still need to offer an opportunity for anyone to be hurt on this matter before you take action. That s right. Ok, thank you. So, is there anyone here that would like to speak to um this abatement. If so, please come up. It looks like we don t have anyone here. Um, so, counsel, if you don t have any other questions or comments. Um, we could move right to the motion. Uh, that the city adopt resolution number 2603 approving the abatement of a public nuisance. For the property located at 556 Vicky Lane. Ok, we have a motion by Council member Gardiner and a second by both well, I think I ll pick the voice. I think I heard council member Springhorn first, um. To, um, adopt resolution number 26-03 regarding 556 Vicky Lane, um, all in favor, please say aye.

I, all oppose same sign. The motion passes, uh, 5 to 0. And now we ll invite MS. Hill back up for a second, um, nuisance abatement at 3457 Sioux Street. Thank you, Mayor. Council members. Yes, the second hearing is a nuisance abatement for a fence at 3457 Sioux Street. And this is adjacent to an alleyway right here. This is Cottage Place, and this westerly portion of the alleyway or the north south portion was vacated, but this east-west portion on the southern part. Remains in place and the city council is being asked to order the abatement of the public nuisance for the property located at 3457 Sioux Street. And again, you have the authority to declare and abate nuisances on private property that do not comply with the city s property maintenance standards. And for this one, it is fenced location. The fence has not been permitted nor approved and is believed to be in the right of way.

And the reason I say believed to be in the right of way is because we don t have a survey that states whether it s in the property or not. We have not gotten a survey that includes this fence to to verify whether it can be approved or not. So the fence has been in place since 2018. The applicants did vacate the rear western like that North South North south portion of the property the um, alleyway in 2019 and as a condition of the vacation, a fence permit was required to ensure that the fence that is there currently met compliance. Afense application was never applied for a complaint was received in AUGUST of this year for that same fence. Staff sent multiple letters and an administrative citation. After that, the fence was not removed, nor a permit application submitted that could be approved. And I do want to note that offense application has been submitted, but there has never been a site plan that includes a survey with the fence location.

So staff has been unable to approve this. And so as of the state, um, the applicant has not submitted a offense permit application with documents that staff can approve, and the applicants has stated that they are working on a vacation, but the city has not received a completed application with a petition of over 50% of the abetting property owners yet. So again this is the fence in question here. And staff is recommending that the city council conduct the required hearing and adapt resolution 2604 approving the abatement of the nuisance at 3457 Sioux Street. The order does specify that the corrections with the specifies the corrections required to bring the property into compliance with the city s property maintenance codes. And if the city approves the motion, staff will move forward with the abatement of the nuisance conditions if they are not corrected. Any additional questions Well, I had one only because I remember when I was fairly new on counsel.

Do, are you thinking what I m thinking, Councilor Merbert Springhorn, that when I was fairly new on council, there was, I thought it was this fence, was it? And, I went to um the I think the property owners were fairly new and, and anyway, I went over there to look at this and I thought it, and I bumped into council member Springhor they, because they had the residents had asked somebody from the council to come and we both went over not knowing the other one is gonna be there, but, and I had recalled at the time that the owner s father, I think, was the person I talked to, and I thought they were, they were questioning something, but I thought that there was an agreement, maybe that was, 00, I m sorry. Ok. Ok, well, I, I just wondered if it was the same fence. Ok. Ok, all right, I m sorry that, but yeah, I, I remember cause I remember, I remember there was some dispute about whether they had actually or not reached 50% at the time and I think.

Ok. All right. The original fence or the original Alley Vacation was for the entire alley. And then it became modified because of the petition changed and then some property owners supported. That North-South version, but not the east-west version. So from where it started in 2018, to where it was approved in 2019. The, the vacation did change. But the, what was ultimately approved was just the north-south portion. Ok. Ok.

And, and what you re missing then is the survey information. Defense permit. And defense permit. Ok. But it, we have not gotten one with a survey that has the fence location on the plans. Ok, all right. Ok. Any council, any other questions? Why my memory is so good about this, and I can t remember what I had for dinner today. I m sorry. I know. Not at all. It s a scratch I get what you re saying. Um. Could you just remind us what exactly is the abatement that we re talking about? It s removal for a fence that was unpermitted because we require fence permits. And then we require an inspection that shows where the property corner irons are to ensure that it s within your property lines removal is what you re talking about, ok. Ok. All right. Any other questions? Ok. Thank you, MS. Hill, and uh please come up and and speak to this.

Was that your father that I talked with? I remember the beginning of the whole ok. I don t think I met you, but I do remember your dad Tony. Um, and this seems so silly after everything we just heard today, so, but I guess I ll just go on with my little. It s business. No, it all, but I ll just go for it. My name is Alyssa and i m the owner of 3457 Siouxre along with my husband Tony, since purchasing it in 2018, we have completely renovated the entire home, updated the whole old falling down shut in the back, paid to cut down dead trees redone all of the landscaping and made a true home with our two children. Fencing our yard was important for the safety and protection of our children and 2 dogs. Upon first moving in, we immediately applied for a permit to install a fences, as being first-time homeowners, we were very excited about the process.

We admittedly ran into some challenges based on the fact that our property borders outdated outlays on either side of our property, invisible unused alleys was a new concept to us. Our home is most affected by these alleyways as they run on both the west and south side of our property. To simplify and have the ability to create the nicest property layout possible. We embarked on the process to vacate the alleyways on both sides of our property. After meeting with the city and our neighbors, we got full signatures to approve the West and South vacation. Following the city guidelines of a 4-foot fence along the alleyway, we continued on with our funds while waiting for the vacation process to be complete. We paid for a home survey to be done and followed the guidelines to our best knowledge, as logically making sense, we connected our fence along the shed bordering the south alleyway, which was acknowledged by city council to be slightly over the property line.

Unfortunately, due to one neighbor who had much influence with city council and is least affected by the problems associated with the alley, the south portion of the alleyway was not vacated, even though the majority of signatures needed for vacation was achieved. Given that information, we connected our fences to the corner of our shed. It would have been, it would have connected along our property if we would have connected along our property line, the fence would have gone directly in the middle of the shed door, being unusable and causing practical difficulty. In 2020, we requested and received a permit to repair and remodel the shed. At no time during this process did the city have an issue with the location of the shed or the fence. Now 8 years after the vacation and 6 years since the city approved the improvements to our shed, we re back in front of you again today. Our fence has been up for 8 years.

And since it did not go through the full permit process and now cannot be approved due to the fact that our funds is approximately 1 ft over the property line and connected with a shed that has been approved to be over the property line. We believe the situation has truly been handled poorly by all parties involved and continues to be a problem that needs to be resolved. The alley to our south is not maintained or managed by the city or any neighbors besides our own. As a result, unknown people park there, as well as dump garbage, is it a hazard and a danger to all surrounding neighbors. As a result, all the surrounding neighbors in the south alleyway have put up fences to separate themselves from the challenges associated with Ali. One in particular was granted the right to put up a six foot fence that extends over the property line that I do have photos to share if necessary.

Well, I m aware this is not a vacation hearing. I felt it was necessary to outline all prior details for the council to get the best overall picture of the situation before making their decision. Based on all these factors I have outlined, we have decided to take down our entire funds and start from scratch. We re just respectfully asking that the city hold off on their decision to move our funds until the vacation process has been completed or until the spring when we can get a more accurate survey of our entire property to decide well how we want to resubmit for a permit. While we understand our funds has not followed all the guidelines. Our fence is not impeding on city or public use and was lined up with our shed that was given permission to stay in its location. Given the circumstances, this temporary holds all gives all parties time to determine a final resolution on vacation, proper surveys can be done and removal of the fence can be done with weather restrictions.

We appreciate you taking the time to hear us out today. Thank you. Um, you might want to stick around in case some council has questions. Council, do you have questions? I have a question. Oh, you, you can stay at the podium. That s fine, yes, because then, then you people at home who are watching can have you engaged a surveyor yet? Yeah, we had, so we had a survey right in the beginning. And then we had to get another survey when they vacated the west portion of the back. So our neighbor to the back behind has been telling us for 3 years that he s gonna move his fences back now cause he gets an additional 6 ft after that s been done. And we keep contacting him and he keeps telling us he s gonna move it, but he never does, um, so we put up like a temporary lattice portion in the back.

It s just cause we can t technically connect our fence because it s his property, but he keeps telling us he s gonna move it, um, so we had just had like lattice sections there to keep our dogs in and stuff, but yes, we have conducted two paid, for and done two surveys. Thank you. Other questions Councilmember Don Um I m not sure if this is a question for the app or for the uh uh I m not sure exactly what to call this, uh, the defendants, not really, but uh feels like it. Homeowner, thank you residents, homeowners. Resident and homeowner, um, or for staff. Um. I m I guess I don t understand what the decision-making process that led to not vacating that uh the east west. Leg. And if that were vacated. It sounds like there s a process that could be done to vacate and then that would likely solveense issue. Correct, so unfortunately due to after everything that kind of was discussed today, we have a neighbor who I don t wanna put any addresses or anything out there that we are not able to get in contact with to to requiring his signature to move forward with the vacation.

Um, he is not answering his door. Um, so we cannot move forward with the vacation process until we get his signature. Thank you Oh, Councilor, Tom, just a, a, question then for staff is that if the vacation of that alleyway uh were to proceed would there need to be a fence permit or would that then make this fence. Uh in permit permit at permit the moment permit at the moment permit, um, if the vacation was done and it went through our fence would be very much in our property line by a lot, um, but it s not currently permitted right now, and we understand that. We re just trying to resolve the issue. If a vacation went through a fence permit is still required. Just to verify. That it s within property boundaries, whether it s it s just spun a mess ok. Councilor Gardner did you have a question? Mayor, just, I m not the planning expert on the council by any means, but um it s a very tangled web.

Uh, it sounds like, um. And I m just thinking about the practicalities of installing a new fence to keep your critters and your your four-legged and two-legged fritters in That s just my only concern if you build one is removed and the new one goes in with a permit. That would have to be done in a fairly quick succession. That s just my only observation. And with the frozen ground, I don t know how.

Practical those things are, so. Spring and, and again, as, as, uh, MS. Hill mentioned with the previous uh abatement. Um approving the abatement today does not start a clock ticking, you know, that, you know, within 30 days, the abatement has to be done or whatever like we we could put it on the record, um you know. That would not mean someone s gonna show up tomorrow to take the fence down, right? So. Um what you, what do you think is a reasonable we ve come to the conclusion that our neighbor is not going to move his fence. Um, so we ve kind of outlined a plan that includes, we re hoping that we can go forward with the vacation because we think it s just the best possible solution for all neighbors. Um, we ve been informed a lot lately about um violations and like. People making complaints as Nikki likes to say, um, but everyone in our neighborhood is in violation.

There s like 15 to 20 violations like offenses, everything along our street and we re just like trying to do the right thing. From Maryland, sure. Have you supplied the city with your two surveys, so we can t find them temporarily. Um, we still have the flags up in our yard, so you can see there s something from two different companies, but we never got anything like submitted to the city or they never sent us anything. Um, the survey companies file that we can t find anything that we got done. They just came out and marked the. And they didn t give you a drawn plat or anything have like everything saved from this whole thing back and like into like people s comments, everything, and we don t have anything. So we know we will have to get another survey come spring. You re totally fine with that. And we re ok paying for a third.

So the survey company didn t, you paid them and they didn t provide it to you? No, they just came out and marked our. They just marked our with flakes with their yard. I ve never had a survey done, but I thought there was always a report. So in other words, you don t have anything in writing to, and you ve checked with them and they don t feel they owe you that? No, we don t have anything from them. Mayor, um, yeah. Melissa, uh did you get a survey done or, or did you get property locates because survey companies will do property locates where they identify your pins where they don t give the like that s what the neighbor in the back did to get his pens. We got an actual survey done. And again, we re happy to get another one. In the spring if we when we need to Um, and the the your neighbor that won t come to the door, are you confident that you, or, or you ve just gonna go with your alternative.

So we have one out of 5 of us. The one in the back who is directly affecting this whole thing that has in the past, she s a no, we know that. Um, then there s the people that put their fence over the property line. I have photos of their shed and their fence over the property line. Um, that we re hoping that we can get them to agree to sign, um, because they re already in violation just like us. I don t want to throw them under the bus, like whatever, and then the man that we haven t been able to get a hold of and then the other person is a renter, so we really don t have a ton of choices. And us as one of them. MAY I ask one more question? Absolutely. So when you mentioned that it s over the property line? Do you mean in the proper line being the property line to the alley.

Ok she is about 6 inches over the property line into the alley. And we requested a permit, um, back in 2020 over covid to make it, it was an old falling down shed. We made it into like an office. Situation, um, and we got a permit to do so and everyone they came out, inspected it. We got our permit for the shed, um, never in that process did they say anything about our fence being over, even though it had already had been for many, many years, um, so yeah, we re talking about maybe 6 inches here. I just lined my fence up with my shed. That you guys thought I could have in stay on my property Yeah in council in, I think, you know, ultimately we do need the tools to enforce action to take place in a timely manner, um, I think there s a potential path to success, um, if there s due diligence moving forward on a timely manner for our team.

Um, this does take us a lot of energy to follow up with these conversations and have multiple conversations as you. Um, and as you heard, you know, the community wants us to focus on other things. Um, so, you know, we can neither table this and discuss it again. Um, you could take no action or you could take action to approve the re resolution, which gives staff the tool to apply pressure necessary to keep this moving forward in a timely manner. Well I, my gut at the reaction at this point is, that, you know, you will put up a new fence in the spring. You ve stated that, um. That seems to will have finally, you won t see me again in 4 years or you, um, no offense. So I, I m tending to let you do that, but I, I also um am thinking in my mind as a commitment, I don t know you, but I, you know, I don t wanna have to have you come back in again, um, or have another abatement or anything like that.

So, but I would be interested in if we, you know, gave more time, whatever method we did that by to, to have the survey done sooner than later and get the report so that s in hand maybe. I don t know how often or how quickly they work, but um, you know, the, whatever you needed from the neighbor in hand or so that that you know there were steps taken so we know in the spring when it s possible and when you re planning to do so to erect the fence. So I mean, I m amenable to more time, but I would like to see those steps. I think it gives our staff, you know, it shows good faith in moving forward. I have no reason to doubt you, but I also don t know you, and, and I would love to put this to an end, um, and I m sure you would too.

So, but I um uh interested in council thoughts about that, um, those are just mine. Yeah, I, I, I would be inclined to to go ahead and and uh move for the abatement, uh, and, and have that kind of in, in the toolbox like Fred said, and not that we do it instantly, but, but, um, but that, that encourages forward motion, so. But with timelines, for example, built in others done. Um, I m pun not intended on the fence on this. um. Because again, I, I wasn t around when the vacation occurred, it seems like the vacation is potentially an option, but it requires a number of other uh homeowners to uh to be involved. And so I don t want to have to depend on that, uh, for our decision today at the same time, if the intent of the homeowner is to rectify the situation regarding the fence uh come this spring. And I have no reason to not uh take the homeowner at their word, um.

I am open to tabling this item until um somewhat arbitrary but maybe until JUNE 1. That if action hasn t been taken and that steps haven t been taken and been recorded, uh, with staff that then the abatement comes back. Um. I don t know if that saves staff work or if that creates more work for staff. Um, I do you know, as we are all uh acknowledging here there are uh much more pressing issues that we want to focus our attention on and staff s attention on. So if, if putting, if tabling this for 5 months or whatever period that is allows staff to focus on other things, um. Then I would be supportive of that council. So surveys can be done year round. Um, applications can be submitted year-round, even with construction can t take place now. So I think, you know, adopting abatement still doesn t mean we could get a survey in our hand.

We couldn t get an application in her hand, which you have time to complete your application. So there s ways to come into compliance without constructing it on the timeline to compliance. So my concern about pushing this off 5 months is what will actually change and be back here again, We ll take whatever action you you have. We re here, we re here with you because we believe we haven t got the action we need to move forward. So otherwise we wouldn t be here. Ok. So, but that being said you could move forward with the abatement now, but with the, the date that by which that had to be put in, is that what you re suggesting? No, I would just move forward with recommend moving forward with the abatement, um, and then that gives staff the tool to have. Now, we work with people all the time in all sorts of unique situations.

So if an ea, um, residents showing that I, I have a survey scheduled with so and so company for FEBRUARY 20th. Ok We ll follow up after that. And then I have an application. I will be submitting by x date. Ok, we ll follow up after that. But we need something to just assure this actually happens. Ok. So it s like that if we vote for an abatement tonight, it doesn t mean that the city s going to come down and charge you for tearing down the fence, but it would require you to you know, get the survey done, for example, whatever you agree with that the city that that you re able to successfully get this we move forward with the vacation process, then if we would like to continue to do that if there s a deadline. So mayor and council that would be another potential action step they could proceed forward with a vacation process and, you know, similar I would say to what, 3204, um, you know, the council essentially do well that we delayed action for.

And the last time we went through with the vacation process, we had all of the needed signatures and still had to go through all of this and still got turned down by you guys. So I don t know like. What the correct way to go about this is cause it feels like everybody s against us. We re just trying to like make our neighborhood nice, right? No, I, I just trash filled alley right now. My understanding if we, if we pass the amendment, the staff still has the discretion about how to carry it out. And when. Does that sound right? Co Um and MS. Hill, I was wondering about the, the, the vacation that didn t get approved, that was because there weren t the, uh, a number of signatures they needed them all. Ok, well, I know, I know, yeah, I just, I m trying to verify the reason behind that. I don t recall that piece of this, so there, was, I know, some confusion about signatures at the time, but then I do know that all property owners adjacent to the north south portion were in support of that while not all neighbors were in support of the east-west because of access and usage of that alley.

Ok, the woman who was against it had people sign that were not even attached to the alley, so shouldn t even have uncounted for signatures. Um she had people signed twice We got the number of signatures that were approved to vacate both alleys, um, and ultimately it came down to her over us and. She s best friends with old mayor Oh. I, well, I then. I ll accept that comment. I, I, I, I know the old mayor and um anyway, but I m gonna look to you again, MISS. There was multiple properties that used it, so that and with the change, the city. Decided that they could support the North South version, but the eastwest because there was multiple people who were against it and used it. And access. That is why the city decided that it was still a public benefit versus Google and the signatures would have been residents. I mean, we, you could tell or if you look back at the reports, there was discrepancy as far as the signatures, um, as far as their also could have been duplicates for a single properties, I mean.

But to be honest, I don t know the specifics of that record. I just know that there was discrepancies with the signatures on that. But that the signatures didn t have any bearing on the council s decision of it, but they did have, I think, 3 meetings, how would they have known that?

Well, they did go back and get some counsel just at some point we have to make a decision on this so we can keep going and talking about. But ultimately staff either needs to um you know, get something with the deadline, so some sort of motion either approving the debate, the abatement or requiring a new application for a vacation by x. I mean, some sort of action moving forward. So I sense there s some discomfort with moving forward straight to the abatement, um, so I mean, you could approve the abatement subject to. Um. That would be put on hold if a vacation application is received in 30 days or something of that nature. I don t know um Nikki, is that a reasonable time frame to put together our abatement or sorry, an easement vacation application. Or not ease it right away, right away vacation the vacation application is partially submitted at this point. The only thing missing is the legal description, and then we don t have a full petition.

But we have received a partial vacation application at this point. And by a full what, what do you mean by a full petition? Ok. You need at least 50% of the adjacent adjoining property owners to sign it in order for it to go before the city. Of the city just gonna not let it go through anyways? Why do we need the signatures? Well, and it sounds like you re not sure which way you re gonna go and have it be fair and it hasn t felt fair before. Uh, mayor, can I just make a point of order? Absolutely. That s uh this council is not the council in 2018 or 2019 and that there are different individuals here that are on counsel and that I would. Um ask the homeowner to understand that there is a fair, transparent and open process that we uh, pride ourselves in in this community or at least on I believe as a council member and so I would ask uh.

The homeowner that you have to trust the process. Going in thinking that it s gonna be skewed one way or the other. Is likely going to work to your detriment in this process, rather than in your favor. Well, and I think to because we do need to take action in some way today, and I think part of it is, you know, if you did want to go the vacation route. Uh, that would be your choice, uh, but we re gonna take action on something, but it could be, um that you, if you wanted to move forward with the fence to do that, and you are the one that has to decide if you want to take the vacation avenue or not, um. So Mayor Denker, can I just make one point of clarification you can. Um, when it comes to the vacation application, it s you know, the signatures over 50% of the adjoining property owners, but then that brings up the public hearing.

Just because there s a signature of 50% of the adjoining property owners or more doesn t mean that the council is obligated to go one way or the other. It just means that you have the opportunity to see if there s that public benefit or not. So there s still a risk if you went that way that the public hearing wouldn t go that way, correct, um, that I just wanted to, it s a hearing, it doesn t guarantee anything one way or the other, much like any application for ok. Choices, yeah, MISS Hill do they have to get the vacation in order to build the fence. No, to put the fence where it is currently.

Yes Otherwise they would have to get, uh, I mean, a variance application, but I don t know what kind of practical difficulty would be to have it in an alley. That that would be for the property owner to That would have to go through planning commission first or if there was a variance application, yes. But if it was vacation, I mean, to keep it where it is, a vacation would be required. A variance would be another avenue, but that, is up to the property owner as far as that, but if there was a fence within the property boundaries, that s something we could approve at any time. Thank you So, um it sounds as if if you really want to get this resolved without any question or what ifs or um that what you originally had talked about replacing your fence, um, in the spring. Sounds like to me an option and it s your decision, but about how you want, you know, whether you want to uh do the vacation route or not, but I think if you really want to be done with this, and it sounds like you were amenable to that or open to that.

That it s your call, but that seems like you could put this to bed one way or another. Um. So and I think that s your decision So you want me to say if we re going to go through with the vacation or not, I don t. I don t know how to answer that. Well, we need to make a decision one way or another, so I m not saying that we need to make a decision about what we re gonna do about this abatement now tonight. So, we still can move our, we would still have to move our fences either way because we can t connect to the neighbor in the back, so a new permit and a new plan is required either way, whether we move forward with the vacation and or not. Ok. Ok. So I guess I ll take a kind of a read of counsel where you are right now, so we can take the necessary action, whatever you think it is.

So anyone want to speak to that at this point? Uh, Mayor, just to get the ball rolling and we can see where it goes. Um, I ll make a motion to adopt resolution number 2604 approving the abatement of a public nuisance for the property located at 3457 Sioux Street. A second, uh, mayor, I m, I m, uh. I m disillusioned. I, for some reason, I remembered this whole thing having had a happy ending back then. So I m sorry it does not, but, uh, I hope we get there. I really do. And um uh, so, but at this point, I think we need to move forward, getting the abatement on record and and then hopefully. Um we can get worked out and before the abatement has to actually occur Right. Mayor, uh, just a uh I guess if this is time for discussion. Of the amendment or of the motion. We have a motion in a second, but feel free to add something and we ll take a boat.

I the the thing that I, the reason why I didn t make a motion is because I was trying to think of if what Brad suggested of having a, whether it s 30 days or 60 days for a